High mileage daily driver

[entwisi]

HI all,
new member of the forum here,

I'm currently driving an Audi A8 4.2 quattro Sport as my daily driver covering a > 100 mile round trip commute ( 80% motorway, 20% A roads). However due to a few issues/concerns/costs I'm looking to get rid and have been toying with the idea of getting a P5 to replace it. I've always had a soft spot for the P5 thinking it to be a real "gentlemans express" since I was about 7 and saw my first one. I used to run nothing but classics as daily drivers years ago but usually only covering 10-12K PA whereas I'm looking at 25-30K PA now. My history being MK1 EScort 1300GT, Mk3 Zephyr 4, MGBGT, Triumph Vitesse 2L A40 amongst others

Would I be crazy to do such a thing? I'd be looking to LPG it as I've been driving on LPG for approx 9 years now over various cars and with the distance involved I'd need it to make it economncally viable ( the A8 does 16/7 MPG on gas as a guide to what I'm currently paying)

I know it would not be anywhere near as sporty or quick as teh A8 but TBH I probably need to slow down a little anyway as teh Audi really doesn't sit comfy at under significantly illegal speeds and I'd like to chill out and enjoy teh ride a bit more than I currently do.

I'd be looking at a good solid condition 2 car as a start point with idea that I could do some good basic work up front to ensure everything is fit for purpose and then as a running resto as time moves on. I'd look to do some modernisation such as eleccy ignition and potentially uprated heating/ventilation to cope with those steamy windows.

Any hints tips and gides welcome, I've read teh buyers guide but anything that offers more in depth knowledge would be very gratefully received.

Many Thanks

Ian

[David]

Hi Ian

First welcome to the forum.

No reason why you could not use a p5 (3 litre or V8) as a daily car. I know others here who do, though regular maintenance will be required, certainly more than your Audi - the 4.2 A8 is a stunning car

As for LPG, again there are owners who have had their car converted. John Stacey, a Rover P5 Club regional rep has been driving one for some time now.

You will find plenty of information and assistance on this forum - we have a friendly, helpful following.

[entwisi]

cheers, yes teh A8 is a stunning piece of kit but it appears the gearboxes are made of cheese, a long and expensive story not yet finished I'm afraid.

happy with regular maintenance, I'm pretty handy with spanners and have a friendly mech as well. The only bit that worries me is the dreaded rot. My view is to find a good solid car rather than a necesarily 'shiny' one. paint is a lot cheaper and easier to fix than extensive rust. ditto with interior, honest and useable is OK with me to start with.

I've been reading a little further as to some of teh mods people do ( volvo steering, eleccy ignition etc) so I'm comfortable that I wouldn't be seen as a heathen for doing 'sensible' mods.

Ian

[Phil Nottingham]

Properly maintained and regularly will make a P5B an ideal car. None of the maintenance complicated or time consuming and pares are plentiful.

LPG is an expensive conversion but makes sense for high mileages whist LPG price remain low

Apart from on here look on Club website - the BW35 auto gearbox if rebuilt will be perfectly adequate and was used on many cars of the period . As with any car of this ear corrison is a problem and it can be easily concealed but there are plenty out there.

Not really in the same league as an Audi so unfair comparison - the P5B is far superior - no need to convert to Volvo PS as superior rebuilt boxes are easily available in the UK - Volvo one ares not.

Few mods are really needed to use daily but radial tyres are essential and rear fog/hazards. Plus electric fuel pump to prevent vapor lock in traffic! Unleaded fuoe can be used without additive but to make use of full performance potential on a rebuilt HC engine an octane booster will be needed. LPG will reduce power though but there is adequate there anyway

It depends on what you want but it takes all sorts so whilst some purists would look down on none period mods eg wide tyres/modern ICE etc most would not

[entwisi]

Thanks for the info, as mentiojned I'm looking to slow down a bit anyway as I tend to hussle along a little too quickly( I'll blame usual C21 lifestyle )

got a couple of cars I'm planning to see ( seen one already )

[Phil Nottingham]

Rovers were meant to be driven in a sedate and staely fashion but with more than enough reserve to leave any Audtin/Fords and any other lesser marques behind who drivers did not know their place.

Rover also intended that the top speed could actually be treated as its cruising speed for long spells where any normal car would have expired in a few miles - Mk2/M3 that is over 100mph - quite enough to quickly loose your licence

[glennr]

Sept 22, 2009 12:25:16 GMT entwisi said:

HI all,
new member of the forum here,

Yes. a warm welcome to the forum

[entwisi]

Well, it took a bit longer than expected and a pandemic to swap my daft commute to a work from home role but i finally got there.. Today I took delivery of a 1963 mk2 3 litre auto saloon reg is 189 CVJ if anyone knows it or any of its history. it has a folder with some stuff in including the old buff log book but the last MOT in 73 is showing only 3K miles lower than what it is now. It was done again in 2016 with the same 49K s it shows now so its either been sleeping for a significant period or its been off the clock for a long time. I bought on Saturday at Mathewsons.

It appears to have been in Northern Ireland for a while and hasnt done (m)any miles since it was last through a sale in 2015. It was recommisioned by a garage just outside Belfast in August this year.

Its still on a dynamo and positive earth and has a few minor flaws in paint but nothing too bad.

Interior wise it needs seat belts fitting before I can think about taking the family in it, the leather needs connolisation but is not split which is a bonus.

Its going in for a general MOT style check tomorrow to see if anything else needs sorting to be safe, I suspect the tyres are older than my 11 year old

I've also noticed the front sidelight isnt working and the indicator looks to have aa bad earth as when indicating left it seems to be doing a hazard lights impression.

Its had a new battery but the wrong terminal clamps so they literally just sat the old hat style ones on top of the standard posts, nothing at all to secure them.

The rear drivers side door doesnt appear to want to lock either, the internal handle appears to cick as if it is doing but the door doesnt actually lock when you try it from the outside.

So a small but significant list of stuff to get on with but i will get there and it will become my main driver to sit aside something else. That currently is a C70 volvo cabriolet but i need to sell it, I've had it 5 years so its time to move that one on.

So finaly I can say Hi properly.

[Phil Nottingham]

Welcome to P5 3 Litre ownership - it looks like there will be many small easy jobs just from lack of use.

The key thing to do before driving it is to change the engine oil and filter (use 20/50 with a high ZDDP content such as Smith & Allen Ultra www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20W-50-Mineral-Multigrade-Engine-Oil-API-CF-SG-20-Litre-20L/301499425348  Make certain the ATF is full when idling in D (with handbrake on) driving it too low will ruin the box. Use non-Dexron ATF such as Comma AQF.  Does it have power steering?

The brakes are likely to be sticking so these will need careful checking and a fluid change. Footbrake and handbrake should be very good

Other problems will surface once the cob VERY quicklywebs are blown out with some high speed cruising (standard unleaded is fine - do not use additive)

Plenty on Search here that will answer many of your questions but a must buy is the WSM from the P5OC

[entwisi]

Thanks,
Its in with my usual mechanic to be "MOT'd" just as a safety check and was recommisioned in August with all oil/filters etc done, new plus, points few coolant hoses, barakes check and lube, new fuel pump and pipes.

Cant wait to get chance to give it a gentle run out up to speed, but wanted to be sure of condition of tyres etc first.

WSM?? I have joined the club if that is what you mean ( got a decent discount on my insurance if I promised so was a no brainer really. plus if it helps keep things going and brings me into the community quicker it all helps.

Any ideas on the back door not locking? My search mojo seems to have left me today.

No Power steering so re-educating myself to driving without ( I ran classics for years so I am used to it, just got lazy with the moderns )

Ian

[Phil Nottingham]

Nov 17, 2020 13:48:24 GMT entwisi said:

Thanks,
Its in with my usual mechanic to be "MOT'd" just as a safety check and was recommisioned in August with all oil/filters etc done, new plus, points few coolant hoses, barakes check and lube, new fuel pump and pipes.

Cant wait to get chance to give it a gentle run out up to speed, but wanted to be sure of condition of tyres etc first.

WSM?? I have joined the club if that is what you mean ( got a decent discount on my insurance if I promised so was a no brainer really. plus if it helps keep things going and brings me into the community quicker it all helps.

Any ideas on the back door not locking? My search mojo seems to have left me today.

No Power steering so re-educating myself to driving without ( I ran classics for years so I am used to it, just got lazy with the moderns )

Ian

Workshop Manual - essential even for mechanics unless experienced with these cars

[enigmas]

My Mk3 P5 coupe was my daily driver for over 20 years Ian. The car was converted to LPG use during it's recommissioning and initial restoration 28 years ago. The major mechanical difference though is that the original 3 litre 6 cyl engine was upgraded to a 4.4 litre P76 V8 (Aussie version of the early Rover 3.5 V8.)

FYI both the P76 and Rover V8s have hardened valve seats (from the Factory) so are ideal for LPG and unleaded fuels. The heads have not been off this engine since it's full rebuild 28 years ago. The engine has covered over 300,000kms during this period. It still has excellent compression and a high vacuum reading which indicates piston ring and valve seal condition. The engine was built for LPG primarily and runs 11:1 compression ratio.

The 3 litre engine though a beautifully smooth engine, ideally will need work on the exhaust seats due to its IOE design. The exhausts valves and seats run directly in the block like a side valve engine, so are susceptible to unleaded type fuels, ie. Petrol & LPG.

Fitting hardened exhaust valve seats to the block is definitely recommended to avert valve recession. On the 3 litre engine with the seats in the block...it's an expensive option!
There are valve saver devices/kits available to alleviate exhaust valve recession issues and suitable for both LPG and non leaded fuels.

Valve Saver Kit



Ethanol laced fuels are also an issue as they are corrosive to the fuel systems (rubber hoses, alloy carbs, fuel pumps and even the steel lines and tanks.)

LPG as a fuel.
Low carbon and non-corrosive, ie., negligible wear to engine components, Engine life is maximised to the extreme, but the power output is slightly less unless the ignition system is modified for for this particular fuel. More initial advance (10° - 15°) with less total advance...topping out at 28°. Programmable ignition kits are now relativel cheap and provide 2 fuel maps. Eg. Petrol & LPG at the flick of a switch.

LPG will run hotter so a freer flowing exhaust system makes sense.

This is the setup of my P5. The LPG convertor (OMVL) is seen to the right rear in the image.

[entwisi]

I've run many LPG cars for over 250k miles so fully aware of the advantages of them over petrol and the challenges ( needs good spark etc ) I had Flashlube on a couple of my conversions before so again aware of valve lubrication systems.

I'd like to stay original engine wise though so maybe need to think about it. I'm not doing hundreds of miles a day any more so its not really an issue ( CV19 has made my employer really embrace the WFH that we have available )