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Post by Gordon Harrower on Nov 22, 2010 3:13:14 GMT
There don't seem to be many 4-speed owners on this board, but hopefully Phil or someone can help me out. I replaced the clutch when I rebuilt the gearbox, but I can't seem to get the adjustment right.
I've adjusted it according to the manual, but it doesn't return after the pedal's depressed (the pedal does, the clutch-linkage mechanism doesn't). I notice in the manuals that early cars had a return spring, but mine doesn't. How, therefore, is the mechanism designed to return to the normal position?
Thanks, Gordon.
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Post by dmaxwell on Nov 22, 2010 15:58:24 GMT
Not sure I understand, does the slave cylinder work ok but the linkage that it pushes on doesn't? The pressure plate should force the throwout bearing back and that should push the lever on the side of the bell housing back and push the rod back into the slave cylinder, which should assist the master cylinder in returning the clutch pedal back to the up position. Which of these actions don't happen? If I remember correctly (and it's been over 12 years since I worked on the Rover clutch as it came from the factory) mine had a spring attached to the clutch lever on the side of the bell housing that assisted the lever to return when the pedel was released. I seem to remember that it took very little effort to work the clutch, compared to some american cars I've driven.
David
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Post by Gordon Harrower on Nov 22, 2010 16:30:25 GMT
Hi David,
Thanks for your response. Part of the problem, I admit, is that I'm working on this car alone, so it's hard to tell what's happening and what isn't. I do know that the mechanism does not return to its originial position after the pedal is pushed, i.e. it gets stuck in the extended position, and I have to return it manually. I suspect that I over-adjusted the slave cylinder, but I'm not sure.
My car does not have a return spring on the lever, raising the question of how it's supposed to return. It worked before my gearbox replacement, so I obviously screwed up something.
Gordon.
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Post by colnerov on Nov 22, 2010 17:53:39 GMT
Hi, I think you need to get yourself a 'lovely assistant'. As DMaxwell says the pressure plate should provide more push than a return spring would. I think either a piston is sticking in one of the cylinders or if there is a flexible hose it may have collapsed internally and is acting like a non return valve. Either way you need to be underneath to see what is happening where. Colin
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Post by dmaxwell on Nov 22, 2010 19:19:40 GMT
Darn! Forgot about the hose in the clutch line!
David
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Nov 22, 2010 19:40:46 GMT
the clutch operating mechanism is quite powerful and works on over-centre trapeze action so needs its springs but flexi hose needs to be good as does master & slave cylinder seals/bores.
My wifes Mk2 Morris Mini had a very very heavy clutch and I replaced everything possible (Master & slave Bundy tube lever/pedal and entire clutch and release bearing over several years apart from the 6" flexi hose - this has collapsed entirely along its length but you could not tell so and it looked as new from outside - replacememt 15 years ago made the clutch incredibly light and it still is.
BTW - Mini slave (non Verto) is same as the P5!
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Post by Ken Nelson on Nov 23, 2010 4:07:58 GMT
Hi Gordon. You need to look at the workshop manual. The 4 speed clutch mechanism relies on an "over the center" balance spring to return all the linkage back in place ready to go again. The clutch pressure plate springs will push the slave cylinder piston back without any trouble, but the spring is vital to making the heavy linkage rods return fully. Page 3 in "Section C-Clutch" of the manual shows a picture of the balance spring (item 62) and Page 15 of "Section C-Clutch" shows a picture of the balance spring "M". It surprised me as to how it makes the effort of working the clutch much lighter by not just being a straight pull. Ken PS. I'm still looking for a replacement bushing to fit over the round ball at the bottom of the gear shift lever where it joins the selector lever. It's not listed as a separate item, but is apparent in the picture of the gear lever on Page 9 of Section D-Gearbox and O/D-Part One". Any one have a source for this??
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Post by Gordon Harrower on Nov 23, 2010 14:10:08 GMT
Gents,
Thanks for your responses. The concept of the balance spring is new to me, but makes sense. The hose is new, and the cylinders are rebuilt, so I don't think they're the problem. Clearly I've disturbed the delicate balance in the linkage and will have to assess and adjust it.
I was feeling smug because the gearshift bushing on my car was intact, but it recently split into two parts. I've epoxied it, but will have to see how it goes. I, too, would be interested in a replacment, if available, but am not optimistic.
Gordon.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Nov 23, 2010 19:22:46 GMT
Not really into manual P5's but I seem to think the manual P6's had a similar if not identical bush. Both date from same time
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Post by dmaxwell on Nov 23, 2010 20:23:54 GMT
Gordon,
What bushing are you in need of? I've got the entire remote shifter from my '65 and could pull whatever you need. Is the bushing on the shifter or the top of the transmission?
David
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Post by Gordon Harrower on Nov 23, 2010 20:56:29 GMT
Hi David,
It's the one at the bottom of the gear lever. Mine is still extant, if damaged. I know Ken Nelson is desperate for one, though. I'd like it if all else is equal, but if it's on offer, he might need it more than I do.
Thanks, Gordon.
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Post by Gordon Harrower on Nov 23, 2010 21:35:42 GMT
The P6 bushing is smaller and differently shaped, unfortunately. I've got a bunch of 'em.
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Post by dmaxwell on Nov 23, 2010 23:51:13 GMT
I'll try to remember to check my garage this evening and let you know what kind of shape it's in. David
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Post by dmaxwell on Nov 24, 2010 21:01:09 GMT
Well, I forgot all about checking the garage last night, it was WAY too cold to do much of anything other than sit by the fire for the evening. I'll try to remember to check this weekend as I'm working in the garage anyway (installing an old stainless steel counter and sinks I was given 15 years ago and have been hauling around to various houses I've owened or rented!).
David
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Post by Ken Nelson on Nov 24, 2010 21:15:23 GMT
Hi Gordon, David, and Phil; Yes, I am definitely desirous of obtaining a replacement bushing for the bottom of the gearshift lever (where it joins with the remote gear selector rod at the very bottom of the shift lever). I've been shifting mine without one for the past two years and it is certainly not up to the standards of a luxury Rover automobile. It has so much "slop" in the linkage that it only goes into 4th gear by ramming it toward the passenger and back. Reverse takes a few tries as well! Ken
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Post by dmaxwell on Nov 24, 2010 21:37:37 GMT
Hi Ken,
Where are you located? I know that when I took the Rover engine/gearbox out of the car the shifter was fine though it did rattle a little in fourth/overdrive.
David
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Post by Ken Nelson on Nov 25, 2010 2:34:39 GMT
Hi David; Regretably for my obtaining Rover parts I am located in Grand Rapids, Michigan USA across the pond. Makes it somewhat tough to obtain some of these bits and pieces since not many P5's ended up here . But if you have that bushing I will gladly pay any cost of shipping plus your charge . Unfortunately I did not see a similar part used in the P6, altho I will try to check P4 parts for similarity. Thanks, Ken
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Post by Ken Nelson on Nov 25, 2010 2:39:38 GMT
PS David, I finally read your location and realized you are in California-maybe it's not too tough for me to buy a bushing from you if your spare is usable! Ken
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Post by Gordon Harrower on Nov 26, 2010 1:52:28 GMT
Gents,
With all of your guidance, I was able to see the light and, within minutes, adjust my clutch and its linkage properly.
The P4 didn't have a remote gearchange (except for the few column-shift) as far as I know, but the P3 did, so maybe there's something there.
Thanks again for the help, and Happy Thanksgiving to my fellow Amurrricans.
Gordon.
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Post by Gordon Harrower on Nov 26, 2010 1:57:18 GMT
Colin,
Speaking of a "lovely assistant," I found myself without a helper last week when I needed to bleed the brakes on my P5. I asked my (attractive) friend Valerie to help and she said "I'm so excited. I've never worked on a car before--I already know which outfit I'm going to wear!" She did fine, too.
Gordon.
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2010 7:12:05 GMT
Gordon,
Take good care of Valerie there are many on this forum needing assistants.
I can be trusted however having sold my P5B!
Peter
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Post by colnerov on Nov 26, 2010 11:17:15 GMT
Hi, is she under contract, or is she available on a freelance basis. Colin
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Post by dmaxwell on Nov 26, 2010 23:53:49 GMT
Ken,
I've sent you a PM.
David
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