Rover China?

[Phil Nottingham]

A very sad end to a once proud company but at least UK tax payers can think they have paid a little more each to prolong the end?

I am posing this question - to try and elicit the other side. No offence intended but my source is allegedly highly respected and hardly in the rag league but I agree still in the end "press". PR is a world of it
own but seems sadly lacking in the last British volume car producer. The complacency of British "management" generally in this respect is
astounding so up to a point it deserves what it gets. Where is MG Rover's counter argument?

Once again the UK Government has bailed out the sad remnants of the Austin/Morris/Rover Companies a situation that has recurred since the late 1960's to "smooth" the road for Shanghai Motors to buy out and continue the names and preserve at least some of the 6000+ jobs in the UK and allied jobs dependent on this firm.

Will this bottomless pit for taxpayers money ever cease? The Wilkes Bros appointed by Receivers rescued the old Rover Company in the 30's depression
without such government aid or interference generally and it degrades the tradition of Rover (and
MG) to allow such a cynical disguised government subsidy (£40M of arrears) in an election year by allowing a National Insurance and Income tax "holiday"
to avoid insolvency. The 1000's of small businesses who are denied such largesse may be somewhat aggrieved although Rover is "paying" a special fee for this privilege it may be that once the fat cats have taken their share, this too will be waived?

[Smallfry]

It is sad......but it surely is common knowledge that the company use the Rover name to draw something from its past reputation ?

The sad truth is that the cars are rubbish, and no one wants them. The poor quality and reliability are well known, and I dont think they will ever be able to shake this off now.

A few years ago a bought a new "Rover" 200, the one thats now called a 25. In the 14 months I owned it, it broke down more times than all the other cars I have ever had put together. The seats were the most uncomfortable I have ever used, and you just got the overall impression that it wouldnt be around for very long. As I said, I got rid of it at a massive loss.........and a friend of mine had similar problems with a 400 series with the same result.

NEVER AGAIN ! And I am a Rover fan. What must others think ? Honestly I think it would be better if the whole company was quietly buried.

The simple truth is that if a company produces a product no one wants to buy, there very soon will be no company. End of story.

[Neddy]

So, at last, someone has the balls to say in public that the (current?) Rover range is outdated, old technology assembled in a shoddy fashion.
I have the (pleasure?) of driving a Rover 620 1999 model and very low mileage. this car is more noisey (road noise and engine noise), more thirsty and less technologically advanced than my Vectra. Both cars are 2 litres, 16 valve and auto.
Rover is 4 speed auto - full stop.
Vectra is 4 speed auto with Sports Mode, Snow Mode and is a very good auto box to drive.
Vectra will easily go further on a gallon of fuel than the Rover ever can.
The truth is that the present Rover Range is on its last legs and if the company cannot afford to replace that range of cars with fresh design of its models rather than simply 'face lifting' the old shapes then I say "GET RID". No point in being sentimental about it.
Rover USED to make fine cars, it does not any more.
R.I.P.

[dorsetflyer]

I couldn't agree more with the sentiments previously put. The only half decent cars they produce are the Rover 75, and the MG sports car. The rest is consigned to history. The Rover name was poached to give an impression of class and build quality, but that soon fell by the wayside with the awful Rover100. Outdated design, abysmal assy, and very little room concluded it's downfall. The Rover 200 and 400 were only facelift models of the original tie up with Honda, and with these if you got a good one you were lucky, the rest fell to bits with rust.
The 600's and 800's were never liked because of
their reliability right from early on.
I am still a Rover fan but not to the present setup at Longbridge.
Hopefully something good might come out of this but I doubt it.

[Adrian50]

[glow=red,2,300]They don't make them like they used to!![/glow]

[guitardave]

When someone ran Into my Rover 600 I got a hired car through the Ins.It was a Rover 75 and I was rubbing my hands with glee.However I very quickly noticed It had no power.Also,when I pressed the wooden facia with my finger It just bent In.The round air vents In the dash could be moved around the holes In which they were meant to be a tight fit and the thing overheated! Everyone making cars these days with few exceptions are trying to do so on a shoestring budget.I can only wonder what the classic car of the future will be like?

[glennr]

I have sent the messages already posted on this subject directly to Rover and have had an e-mail back to say they will get back to me in 48hrs. (yeah ,sure) I have asked them to hand it to the M.D. I removed everybody's name out of courtesy before I sent it. I also added the following text..... "I found these comments on a message board web site and wondered what the Rover Management made of the comments? This once great company in the eyes of the public needs something drastically done to raise it from the ashes and be once again the brand name of excellence.
I would like to say that standard of comments on the above subject were excellent. ;)GlennR

[Smallfry]

Nice one Glenn......it will be interesting to hear their comments, they certainly didn't seen too bothered when I was having my problems.

As classic/old car enthusiasts, I don't think we would be over bothered about things being outdated ! For my part, it was the overall impression of lack of quality in the fittings, and the poor way they were put together. Along with the reliability issues (I hate that word...too PC) just left me with a complete lack of confidence in the car.

The other thing I forgot, which is really a dealer PDI problem, was the discovery of a Lyons harvest pie box under the rear seat. I didn't think anything of it at the time, but along with everything else............

It was apple and blackcurrent flavour if anyones interested

[richard eglinton]

I have no interest whatsoever in any Rover car built after 1973 and my choice for a modern luxury car would be a Jaguar.
Adrians comment made me smile as when I make that comment to my 91 year old father who has owned countless "classic cars" he always says "Thank God"!!
Richard

[glennr]

PDI, Pre Delivery Inspection, It would have been acceptable if the pie was still in the box. (subject to sell by date/best before) ;)GlennR

[Geoff Arthur]

It is a sad fact but had the Labour Government in the 60's just let BMC go bust (as it was anyway) we would have been left with Standard / Triumph, Rover / Alvis & Jaguar as the 3 independent British Companies. Instead we end up with the Longbridge BMC factory churning out cars with Rover and MG badges having been plundered first by British Aerospace then by BMW. Make no mistake, hundreds of millions went during that period. There was just not enough asset left after that to invest in new cars. The cars in the 80's were not bad and easily up with what else you could buy. My 827 Vitesse has just gone to a happy new owner after 13 years faultless service and my father in law clocked up 150,000 trouble free miles in a 1980 216GSI. The newer stuff just does not have the investment or the quality even of some of the Korean cars so reluctantly I stopped buying them. The public wont put up with bits falling off or sitting in a layby waiting for rescue any more. Reliabilty is more important than any other thing as the Japanese proved with their very boring, totally reliable cars in the 70s and 80s.

[Adrian]

In 1972/1973, my farther had a new P6 2200 TC.
I recall it went back to the supplying dealer several times for piston slap problems. The car eventaully went back to Solihull where they found the block had been machined to accept oversize pistons but standard size pistons had been fitted, hence piston slap.
However, when rectified (I can't recall how) it was a good car.

[Neal London]

In my experience with Rover / BL the main problems have been the attitude of the main dealers when you try to have problems rectified.

I can remember my father having to fork out for replacement valves / guides on a 2 year old Rover 214 16v because the dealer said it was caused by laquering of the valve guides and was not covered by warranty - he then had to take the case up with Rover themselves who admitted a problem with the 16v heads. - The previous models with Honda units seemed far more reliable.

[roger wakelam Normandy Franc]

As a long-time Rover fan - I have a P4 110 and a brace of P6's - I suppose we should take consolation in the fact that a Rover in China would be pronounced 'Lover' - which is what our cars are to us. I just started looking at the P5 site coz I also love P5's - I think they are the best-looking car Rover ever made! Enjoy your cars, folks! my e-mail: [e-mail]

[Deleted]

:)Glad you like the Board and P5's - sign up as a member of the board - it makes it easier to see new postings

[John Stacey]

Gents,
100% negative about new Rovers, including the Range Rover which belongs to Ford.
Why then do the reliablity reports complied by Which and AA/RAC all show R75 well ahead of the pack (around place 3 after Lexus400 and Masda)including such icons as Merc (average 27th place)BMW(34) and Golf(68).
My son has just aquired a Nissan Almera; very tacky in the trim department when compared to Rover45.
I have recently done a Bristol/Liverpool/Bristol trip in a 75 and only a 1.8 at that. Very quite, very compfortable especially when compared to my friend`s 3 series, a 323. That is noisy at motorway speeds, largely due to the vast tyres, and escruatinglly uncomfortable. Hard seats, no suspension at all and very cramped. No wonder BMW tried to strangle the 75 at birth.
I was so taken with the 75 that I tried to buy an estate. They simply do not seem to depreciate which put it out of my reach. That in itself must say something about build and reliabilty or have I completly missed the point. I am not a Rover "nut" in that my other car is a Citroen XM estate.
John Stacey ( P5b coupe)

[dorsetflyer]

John you must have missed the point, it wasn't the 75 that was in question, it was all the other variants like 100, 200, 400,600, and 800's.
The 75 has got itself a very good name as the survey points out. It's up there with the best of them.

The diesel version is very quiet, and ranks one of the best in terms of fuel consumption. If I were to go for the 75 that is the version I would get.

I agree totally with your comments on the BMW regarding comfort, it's virtually non-existant. My son's 325 has bone hard seats and rock hard suspension, and in a two seater it's very claustrophobic. Obviously only built for smooth roads and motorways.

[Deleted]

The receivers are there to sell the company. Anyway I feel more sorry for the poor sods that they owe money to for parts etc. It happened to me recently as a piano factory went bust leaving me with a large debt and a load of finished frames. They make them in China now with the famous old British names stuck on. This country is doomed.
I live in France now. No road tax and I can get third party only insurance on my classics.

[Geoff Arthur]

Well RIP the Rover name (it has not been Rover other than in name since 1973). The Brits are the third biggest car maker in Europe (Jag, Aston, Ford, BMW, Nissan, Toyota, Vauxhall, TVR etc) it's just that we dont own the car companies except good old Morgan. We make excellent other products such as my Stoves twin oven and Linn Hi-Fi but they are not mainly bread and butter products. It is usually cheaper to buy a finished product from Korea or China than you could get the raw materials to make it here. Lets look after out heritage but move on in the new world order proud of who and what we are.

[John Stacey]

Gents,
It matters that Rover is gone.
It matters that BAe no longer make civil planes
It matters that we have no computer companies.
It matters that we are about to give what is left of the country to Brussels.

Does anyone really believe that Ford are going to look after British interests, or the French are going to keep work in Britain come the next downturn in plane orders,
or that unellected and corrupt commissioners in Brussels are going to put UK interests on the agenda at all?

The only hope now is that the ellectorate, who are also consumers, will keep the multinationals and the politians in check by sensible use of their cheque books and their votes.

As has been pointed out, 2m cars are made here every year, a vital element of our economy. Ford has moved all of it`s production to Spain, safe in the knowledge that British buyers will not object. Only if buyers start to show a preference for the British built Honda Civic over Spainish Focus will the rest of the industry remain in this country. Use of consumer power is now the only way Britons can ensure that there will be a viable economy to support all the public spending.

Meanwhile, the politicians are bickerring over how much to spend and who to tax to fund it. Voters need to vote for any politian who shows the slightest concern for how the money is to be earned. Finding such a person may prove difficult.
Welcome to the first post industrial economy in the world. on display soon in a dole queue near you.
John Stacey

[adrian50]

John, can you send your entry to our esteemed Prime Minister???

Well said

Lets all go live in New Zealand shall we?

Adrian

[John Stacey]

Adrian,
Do we get a discount for a group booking?
John

[Phil Nottingham]

:'(Nice pictures ofthe PM's P5B on the BBC news tonight + views of Gaydon.

I will just have to make sure I go out tomorrow in one of ours - I used the Land Rover (built by the original Rover Company Ltd in 1958) as it was snowing here

[Geoff Arthur]

John,
I fully support buying British goods and services but the fact is that for 40 years the owners of so many manufacturers have not reinvested in them. What is now MG Rover has not had a properly invested high quality medium car for the whole of that time. The consumer wants products that work. Ford dont make Ford cars here as it needs a lower cost base but it has invested heavily in Land Rover, Aston & Jaguar and will do so for as long as they and the British have the prestige. Ford also make 25% of their world supply of Diesel engines in Dagenham. It is actually more likely that a fully British owned Company such as Barclays or Dyson will shift their jobs abroad. Incidentally MG Rover only represents a residual 6% of what was British Leyland. The rest has been sold to other owners and is mostly going strong (Mini & Cowley / Land Rover & Solihull /Unipart / Finance / Alvis / SU etc). If we dont always invest in our own businesses then at least others do.