Is 2 stroke oil really only 'snake oil' in disguise?

[David]

First a little bit of background. I have a diesel Shogun 4x4, which though
reliable isn't exactly cut out for smooth, performance driving. The diesel is
neither refined or exactly efficient, even after adding copious amount of
preparatory stuff such as Redex and STP over the years.

So after a little research a number of owners mentioned putting a cup full
of 2 stroke oil in the tank when you fill it up. Now being a bit of a skeptical type I
initially scoffed at this, but checking on other sites there did seem to
be a consistent agreement that it really did make a difference. Also it
works best with the cheapest 2 stroke you could buy - Asda £5 for 1
litre, came top here.

Before we get any further I would add the diesel is a pre those exhaust filtration
systems fitted to newer models.

As the tank holds 90 litres (gulp) I put about a third of a bottle in.
Initially there was little difference, but after a few miles things
appeared to become a little smoother and quieter. Now I am sure you are
reading this and thinking that it is that Placebo effect working rather
than the 2 stroke. To be honest I thought so as well, but when my better
half (Anne) drove it she commented the car seems smoother and more
responsive. So we continued to add a little oil to the diesel in the next
couple of fillings, knowing the car was going in for a MOT and the
emissions would either confirm we were right or wrong. The Shogun has
had nothing done to it since the last MOT and only covered around 1,500
miles, so this seemed to be a true scientific way to check. The results
were surprising. Last years emissions were 1.4 and despite much effort
the 'best' we could get was 0.7 - exactly half as much as before.

Since then a number of friends have also traveled in the car and commented
that it seemed smoother and quieter, so it is not only us. Also there is
much less smoke when the car starts up and foot put down. In fact I was
so pleased  I have added a small amount to the SAAB 9000s petrol tank
(previously I put a complete and expensive bottle of STP in to try and
stop a sticking fuel gauge, without any success) and again the car is
smoother, quieter (fuel pump?) and returning slightly better MPG - 39+MPG
at 70MPH. Also the fuel gauge seems to be slowly freeing up.  As the
9000 as a catalytic converter I only add a tea cup amount of 2 stroke.

So is 2 stroke Oil really only 'snake oil. I have to say a resounding NO.

[johnwp5bcoupe]

Sounds like a good result David

[Deleted]

I've been using a low ash two stroke oil in an old ex london cab,a fairway taxi for a few years.. The difference in terms of the rattle especially when cold is noticeable,it runs generally quieter,seems smoother and economy might be slightly improved,it is certainly no worse.The engine is a Nissan 2.7 normally aspirated diesel with about 450,000 miles on the clock.
I think it replaces lubricating properties the reduction of sulphur in modern diesel has taken away and possibly modifies the burning properties. I was convinced when I started to wonder if the overdrive had failed on the car as I could no longer hear a change in engine note as it engaged,it was still working.
The other driver (other half) noticed the difference and over the years I've tried different strengths,different oils and experimented with and without.
I find Wilkinsons finest is cheap (as is ASDAs) and works as well as any premium stuff. The ration 40 to 1 seems the best combination,a higher concentration makes no real difference.
I've been playing at putting a two stroke mix in petrol cars,one reason is that I've read that may help negate the effects of ethanol or more precisely the effect of the water that ethanol absorbs.I have an old transit Mk1 thats been running on two stroke for a while but its too early to see what (if any) difference it makes.

[Warwick]

David,

What does it work out to in terms of mL for say 20L or 50L of fuel? I might try it in the Pug and see if anyone notices.
Might try it in the old Lister too.

I've always been sceptical too. Have you read anything that explains how it works?

[David]

Hi Warwick

I have received a response from another forum (4x4) which makes interesting reading:

"I've been using it in my Discovery and started using it in the Pajero now.
There have been studies that show the improvement in both the
performance of the engine and fuel economy and a reduction in wear on an
engine. The Discovery runs smoother but there is no improvement on the
MPG, however the MOT tester commented on the result of the emissions
test. I am happy knowing that the engine is likely to suffer less wear. Anyway, a couple of links worth reading..."

www.dieselplace.com/forum/76-gm-trucks/64-maintenance-fluids/177728-lubricity-additive-study-results.html
www.4x4community.co.za/forum/showthread.php?t=68220&highlight=mixing+2so+diesel
www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic79420.html

[norvin]

Is it worth trying in the V8 engine? I am surprised it works so well in a diesel as the engine is more or less running on oil.

[Phil Nottingham]

I used to run 2 stroke DKW/Auto Unions in the 1970's as well as motorbikes and always used good quality T/s oils eg Castrol and Silkolene which are designed for lubing and burning without creating to much carbon and ash.

Besides the additives for this they have special viscosity enhancers and ones for self mixing in petrol and driers to absorb water

They would certainly modify combustion whether for the better I am not sure as I could make the two strokes pink but the driers could well help negate the ethanol side effects just as the injector cleaner additives would do. It may well reduce volatilty in hot weather though as parafin does (but without parafin's antilube properties?)

I cannot see that burning cheap engine oil would in any way help and where unleaded additives have been used in the past it may make a deadly cocktail with the jelly stuff /rust particles that will have settled at the bottom of the tank?

I would be interested to hear more about long-term use of T/s oil - though parafin is also supposed to help

[Warwick]

Thanks David,

It looks like it's mainly intended to solve the problems caused by the removal of sulphur compounds from diesel for air quality reasons. I've been running this www.flashlube.com/en/products/diesel-fuel-conditioner.html in the Pug since low sulphur diesel killed the Lucas injector pump in 2007. The second-hand replacement pump has been running well on a diet of Flash-Lube ever since.

I'm not game to discontinue the Flash-Lube, but I might try a bit of 2-stroke oil to see if it makes it quieter.

[johnwp5bcoupe]

May 27, 2013 5:02:07 GMT Warwick said:

Thanks David,

It looks like it's mainly intended to solve the problems caused by the removal of sulphur compounds from diesel for air quality reasons. I've been running this www.flashlube.com/en/products/diesel-fuel-conditioner.html in the Pug since low sulphur diesel killed the Lucas injector pump in 2007. The second-hand replacement pump has been running well on a diet of Flash-Lube ever since.

I'm not game to discontinue the Flash-Lube, but I might try a bit of 2-stroke oil to see if it makes it quieter.

Good stuff Flashlube

[David]

Interesting thoughts.

I was simply thinking that if the old 2 strokes used it to lubricate th engine when running then a smaller amount would do something similar. I appreciate with newer cars the ECUs etc might not like it, but for older cars from say the 1980 and older, then there should be some benefit.

As explained my diesel 4x4 (200:1 mix) is running much smoother and quieter. As for the 1980 petrol engined turbo (500:1 mix), I am still undecided if it has made any difference, though it is slightly quieter. The 1997 petrol engine turbo (500:1 mix) does seem a little more quieter than before.

A friend tried it in his normally aspirated 1700 carb engine (SAAB 96) and found no difference, so the jury is still out.

[David]

Just an update.

I have been adding two stroke to my petrol engined car since earlier this year. MPG has increased (fact) and engine noise has decreased, though I appreciate this may be a placebo effect on my part.

So I thought it might be interesting to see what the emission results were compared to last year. After all, this is really the only scientific way to see if there is a difference.

The MOT station, who I have been using for a number of years, were not informed of what was added to the fuel.

Current mileage 207,000
Previous years mileage 201,000
Last years results are in brackets.

Engine speed 2500-3000
CO:   0.002%    (0.011%)
CH:   8 ppm      (15 ppm)
Lamba  1.009     (1.012)
Idle test
CO:  0.005%    (0.072%)

And the person in my previous post who added it to his SAAB 96 has sent me an update:
"Have now completed over 200 miles with the "Snake Oil" and the engine is sounding and feeling a lot smoother, even my wife noticed the difference. Was a bit ham fisted with the amount of oil added, your cupful to a tankful(90lt.?) turned out to be a cupful to my tankful of 50lts. Still it seems to have done no harm. The engine sounds and runs more like an inline four not a V4"



Thoughts/opinions?

[enigmas]

This all sounds interesting and I might try some in my 1942 WLA motorbike (side valve twin).
I do know that if you run a 2 stroke whipper-snipper on straight petrol it trashes the engine in no time flat as I once loaned a new machine to a friend for her son to use at home. Quite amazing really as modern 2 strokes only require miniscule amounts (25 or 50: 1 ratios) to run safely and effectively for years. It's hard to believe that such a small amount of oil would enable an engine to run safely and not seize.

[Deleted]

I've tried it in my V4 engined transit and it too runs a bit quieter,I put some in the P5b but to be honest it has hardly gone anywhere this year so I can't form any opinions on it.
My taxi continues to run on it and there is a definite reduction in noise especially when cold. As part of some work I'm doing I have the loan of a very accurate flow meter and am going to run some MPG checks on the engine with/without the oil and some other mods,if I can scrounge the use of it for long enough I might try it on the other cars as well.
In some of the tests done in the US some of the diesel additives actually made the rate of wear on pumps etc worse but all the brands of two stroke oil they tested (and some ordinary engine oils) reduced it.

[David]

Kev, the V4 engine in a SAAB 96 is a Ford Taunus, so not too dissimilar to your Transit.

[Deleted]

Yes,I believe the Taunus engine was fitted to the german made early transits. The engines are similar to look at,although they dont share any parts.
The English V4 is a rather harsh engine with plenty of vibration despite the balance shaft and is rubbished by many people. There biggest faults were a tendency for the timing gear to lose its teeth and for the drive to the oil pump and distributor (a long hexagonal shaft) to round off and fail.It can be reliable though,mine stood for almost a year without being started and yet in the middle of a harsh winter started second turn of the key with a fresh battery and happily trundled past quite a few modern cars that hadn't got going.