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Post by stantondavies on Feb 24, 2014 23:46:01 GMT
For some time I have been thinking of fitting a battery cut off switch. It takes too long to isolate the battery in an emergency without one. Also, it could act as a theft resistance measure.
I have bought a suitable heavy duty key operated Lucas switch. The question is - where best to site it?
The cable from the battery is routed from the offside in the boot, across to the nearside, along the top of the sill underneath the kick plates, across the front of the front passenger foot well and then vertical straight under the solenoid. I want to avoid breaking the cable if possible and as I have some short cables spare, fitted with terminals, I did think of mounting the switch somewhere near the solenoid on the inside of the bulkhead, but on surveying that area I am not so keen.
Then I thought I would investigate fitting on the earth side. Potentially, it would fit on the plate between the battery box and the rear of the boot. Quite well placed for a quick cut off and ideal for theft deterrent. But not effective against a short on the positive side.
I am not entirely happy with this and would appreciate any advice and ideas anyone has.
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Post by PeterMadden on Feb 25, 2014 9:22:55 GMT
A friend of mine fitted his on the supporting wall of the offside rear passenger seat. Having all the technical ability of my dog I don't know how difficult it was to do, but it always seemed to be a good spot as you could simply reach back from the driver seat to remove it as you got out and in an emergency you didn't need to open the bonnet or boot.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2014 9:50:58 GMT
Mine was just a red handle (keyless) above and behind the battery in the boot so no one could see it. Insce coy in NL accepted it as anti theft device.I turned battery off when parked. Also prevented battery leakage which can happen with old wiring!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2014 9:55:48 GMT
I have one of these fitted to my transit. It has a 10amp fuse fitted across the terminals so it will run the alarm but prevents any attempt at starting the vehicle.
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Post by Warwick on Feb 26, 2014 2:24:03 GMT
I'm sure that a few years ago I saw one on-line somewhere that was operated remotely using a wireless unit, like remote central locking.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Feb 26, 2014 18:45:37 GMT
Awful idea - electronics should stay in the radio/cassette
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Post by stantondavies on Mar 2, 2014 22:55:08 GMT
Thank you, Gentlemen.
Your replies are very helpful. I was trying to avoid it, but I think that I am going to have to break into the positive feed to the solenoid around the front passenger footwell area.
The question is: How to break into the cable without bodging it? I would want to crimp large lug connectors to the break to attach to the switch. Would a large crimping tool be essential? (I have a small one.) Or could I manage with pliers? Has anyone got experience in crimping large cables?
Incidentally, I had bought a modern Lucas switch with the red removable key. Then a friend offered me a NOS 'Made in England' Lucas switch as fitted to Rolls/Bentley cars. What a difference in quality! And what a sad comment on the decline in quality under a famous (former?) British brand.
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Post by djm16 on Mar 3, 2014 1:06:29 GMT
Commercially prepared cables are not crimped, they are sintered: brief pulse of current welding copper to copper. Assuming you do not have such a machine, you will need to solder the connections. I would advise cutting the cable with a 1mm cutting disc, definitely not wire cutters.
Remove the oxidation with phosphoric acid - just dip the ends. With a micro flame blowtorch, heat the ends of the cut wire and tin them with electrical solder. Then solder on the connectors.
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Post by Steve P5b on Mar 3, 2014 7:40:16 GMT
Thank you, Gentlemen. Your replies are very helpful. I was trying to avoid it, but I think that I am going to have to break into the positive feed to the solenoid around the front passenger footwell area. The question is: How to break into the cable without bodging it? I would want to crimp large lug connectors to the break to attach to the switch. Would a large crimping tool be essential? (I have a small one.) Or could I manage with pliers? Has anyone got experience in crimping large cables? Incidentally, I had bought a modern Lucas switch with the red removable key. Then a friend offered me a NOS 'Made in England' Lucas switch as fitted to Rolls/Bentley cars. What a difference in quality! And what a sad comment on the decline in quality under a famous (former?) British brand. Hi Peter, instead of cutting into the large supply cable, why not disconnect it at the starter solenoid and pull the end back into the car and connect it to the battery cut off switch. Purchase a ready made cable of the correct length with the lugs fitted and pass one end through the bulkhead and fit to the starter and the cut off switch. So no need for bodged crimped or soldered connections, and if required things could be put back to original if required. Crimping copper lugs is my preferred method but you will need a tool to do an effective job www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qYZFxQ8Pxw admittedly this is for high voltage power supply but the principle is the same, try to avoid loose connections. Soldering lugs works fine but is messy and takes some skill to get the job done correctly. While your at it fit a blade fuse and holder www.elcon.co.uk/pdfs/ElconMegaFuseDataSheet.pdf for better protection and if you went down the electrically powered switch route you will find these products suitable www.elcon.co.uk/pages/contactors.htmlI agree with your comments regarding quality of newer battery switches. Personally have had to fit these as replacement parts in the past to large industrial applications and have found them to be very usable as long as they are not opened or closed when high currents are passing through them. Steve |
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Mar 3, 2014 8:29:49 GMT
A much simpler solution Steve one that has been adopted by a few  it will stop the quick jump in and drive off guy but if anyone was intent on wanting your car it would not take them long to figure out a way to bypass whatever you have done as the knowledge needed to start the car is not great "unless you are an AA man"  Removing the 12v is a longer term problem for them if you are away from the car for a longer time. |
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Post by Steve P5b on Mar 3, 2014 9:35:13 GMT
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Mar 3, 2014 12:37:16 GMT
No chance Steve I would have to shoot you  |
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Post by Steve P5b on Mar 3, 2014 23:03:15 GMT
You have a PM
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Post by stantondavies on Jun 1, 2014 18:25:57 GMT
The above comments were very helpful and having given them a lot of thought I have gone against my initial scepticism and fitted the switch adjacent to the starter solenoid on the bulkhead.
There is a small diamond shaped blanking plate on the bulkhead. By taking this plate off and enlarging the hole downwards and to the centre of the car, the switch fitted in neatly with JUST enough room at the back of the glovebox for it to be operated. The black knob is so far back and in the corner as to be almost invisible.
By this method I didn't need to mess about with the existing cable other than divert the feed from the solenoid to the switch. Rummaging in the garage produced a redundant starter cable which neatly connects the switch to the solenoid.
A 15 amp fuse across the switch terminals should be adequate for the clock, courtesy and parking lights etc when the switch is used for anti-theft purposes, but would blow if someone tries to start the car.
Many thanks to you all for your help.
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Post by Steve P5b on Jun 1, 2014 19:46:45 GMT
Sounds like an interesting mod, any pictures please?
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Post by stantondavies on Jun 1, 2014 21:52:54 GMT
.......any pictures please? I was afraid someone might ask that! I have some snapshots on my phone. Perhaps I'll study the tutorials and have a go at posting them when I can make the time; upload speed is max 0.09Mbps on a good day. |
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Post by stantondavies on Jun 5, 2014 23:19:03 GMT
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Post by djm16 on Jun 6, 2014 13:50:40 GMT
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Post by stantondavies on Jun 6, 2014 21:39:57 GMT
Thanks djm16! What did I miss out that resulted in links being posted and not the photographs?
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Post by djm16 on Jun 12, 2014 12:10:16 GMT
<img alt=" " src="http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r199/stantondavies/d59b58e1-9937-437b-9ef2-be4400fa846c.jpg" style="max-width:100%;"] <img alt=" " src="http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r199/stantondavies/ROVER%20P5/fbcad65f-5bf8-453a-b361-14a24cd8a377.jpg" style="max-width:100%;"] To get the above to show your pictures, replace the leading < with a [ |
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Post by stantondavies on Jun 12, 2014 22:21:40 GMT
Thanks. Will bear that in mind!
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Post by Steve P5b on Nov 23, 2014 19:12:34 GMT
Always best to fit something to isolate the electrical wiring as it's getting very old after all these years to try and avoid this.  |
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Post by Steve P5b on Nov 23, 2014 20:14:00 GMT
Always best to fit something to isolate the electrical wiring as it's getting very old after all these years to try and avoid this. I'd like to think that I might get a wisp of smoke first as a warning! Looks like the owner upgraded to halogens/aircon/Bose sound system/sub-woofer/electric windows and switched everything on at once! Yep. and probably no fuses either. Still, looking on the bright side , must have been nice and warm for a while |
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Post by djm16 on Nov 26, 2014 0:58:54 GMT
Excellent idea to have an isolator. The fuse to allow sidelamps etc to work should be fine, but were it I the fuse would frequently be replaced. An alternative would be to replace the fuse with a normally closed 12V relay. Wire a 1 Ohm resistor in series with the bypass for sidelamps. Connect the solenoid of the relay across the resistor. If the lights are drawing 1 amp, the 1V will be applied to the solenoid and it will not break the circuit. If however you draw 8 amps or more, the solenoid will operate, disconnecting the power supply. So should you inadvertently try cranking the engine with the isolator open, all you will get is a buzzing noise from the relay.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Nov 26, 2014 18:33:37 GMT
Excellent idea with relay - I must do this |
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it will stop the quick jump in and drive off guy but if anyone was intent on wanting your car it would not take them long to figure out a way to bypass whatever you have done as the knowledge needed to start the car is not great "unless you are an AA man" 
