V8 radiator shroud

[Warwick (Ozcoupe)]

Can anyone please tell me when the radiator fan shroud was introduced on the V8?

Warwick.

[johnwp5bcoupe]

Never seen one Warwick how's it going

[Deleted]

My V8 has not got a shroud on the fan.

[Kev]

Are you sure it's not been modified off another car,maybe a Range Rover or something.

Big Kev.

[Phil Nottingham]

The only shroud that is fitted is the safety cover for the fan that bolts to the top of the rad. A shroud missing off many "restored" cars is the one on the alternator

[harvey]

I've never seen a fan shroud on a P5B, but the export P6B's had one, and a plastic fan and viscous coupling when destined for hot climates. Maybe they were fitted for export.

[Warwick (Ozcoupe)]

That's interesting. Thanks chaps.

I pulled my radiator out the other day to get a cracked tank fixed before Christmas so I could get the car running again during the hols. When I had a good look at it in the stark light of day, it seems to have had many tank repairs before. If I ever needed to recore it I suspect that that the tanks would not be up to it.

So I thought I'd get another radiator. I also got another water pump so that I could shorten the shaft to make room for a big electric fan. If I'm going to modify something that isn't reversible (like cutting off the shaft), I prefer to do it on another part and store the original away for the future in the interest of originality.

Anyway, the radiator and pump I picked up on Wednesday are off a later car than mine (mine's early 1970) and the radiator is fitted with a pressed steel shroud that is attached to the back of the radiator, with a bolt at each corner. It looks very much like a factory job. The water pump has had a viscous coupling fitted and has the dreaded embossed L inside a swirl.

So I think Harvey is probably right. Maybe it was used on the last of the export models. I sent it off to the local radiator repairer for cleaning and testing. It hasn't been in a car for about 20 years. I'm getting it back this afternoon, so I'll take a photo.

I've asked them to leave the shroud off and they are also removing the auto-trans cooler as they found an internal leak. So I'll be installing an external cooler sooner than anticipated. Any recommendations? I was planning on fitting one where the horns are presently so it gets fresh air coming in through the horn hole in the front valance. (Do you call it a valance?)

[PatMcCoy]

Ive fitted a electric fan
A kenlowe and it sits in the the gap just between the grill a rad

[Warwick (Ozcoupe)]

John, I thought I was about to start making progress again but I think I've just hit a small snag.

Pat, I've got no room in front of the radiator as the car has airconditioning, so I'm stuck with the less efficient arrangement where the fans pull rather than push. I used a pair of very large Repco fans on the Range Rover and these have their own shroud and they sit against the core. So I'll do something similar on the P5B.

Harvey, what does a P6B radiator look like?
If you had a P5B and a P6B radiator sitting side by side, are there one or two distinguishing features that immediately identify which is which?

I think I may have done a silly thing.
In my haste to get the "new" unit cleaned and tested before the repair shop closed for Christmas, I didn't even take it out of the boot of the car after picking it up and just dropped it straight around to the repair place. It looked quite different because of the steel shroud, but dimensionally it was much the same.

But I picked it up this morning just before they closed and brought it home. Now that I can see them side by side !!!!

The mounting brackets are different and it's not going to fit. It also has a thinner core. Judging by the shape of the shroud, I'd say that the fan that went with it was bigger too.

Did the last of the P5Bs get a Leyland treatment in this area? Bigger fan and a thinner radiator? Or have I just reconditioned a P6B radiator that is of no use to me?

Warwick.

[Phil Nottingham]

No P5B were ever fitted with a shroud as standard at any time in their production. Overheating and fuel vaporisation problems were becoming troublesome towards the end of P5B production swhich is why electric fuel pumps were offered on export models and even home market. The viscous water pump is clearly non-standard too. No mention in parts catalogues either as export market parts are always listed

Rover but more often the selling dealer often fitted non standard parts at the request of the customer however. The P5 radiator used standard cores these did differ in thickness. P5's and P5B's ans P6 and P6B has cross flow radiators so they could well be the same apart from the side tanks and fitting brackets

[harvey]

If you can post a picture of the rad I should be able to tell you if it's a P6B. Several pics of the mounts and from different angles should do the trick.

[Warwick (Ozcoupe)]

Thanks Phil and Harvey.

It's clearly not from a very late P5B then. It's starting to sound like it's from a P6B.
Externally the dimensions are virtually the same. The top and bottom hose connections are in the same places as are the transmission cooler connections.

The main points of difference are the mounting brackets which aren't at the same height and they project towards the rear of the car rather than being in line with the core.

I've also found a maker's tag on mine that was legible once I cleaned it up. It's been recored in Australia by a company that no longer appears to exist and the last digits of the ID number are 77 and are hand stamped. It seems likely then that the cooling was found wanting due to the airconditioning (no booster fans) and a bigger core was fitted in 1977. The aircon was installed prior to the original customer delivery in July 1970. (I have the paperwork).

When I compare them side by side (something I should have done first....Doh!), the differences are obvious. For a start, the old one has a much more "dense" fin pattern and the core is over 2" thick. This other one has a more open core which is less than 1 1/4" thick. Also one weighs 12kg and the other 6kg.

I've taken some photos but I can't download my camera at home.
I'll post them tomorrow from the office, but since that is Christmas Eve, please don't feel there is any need to get back to me if you are busy. There is no rush at this end. It can all wait until after Christmas.

I hope Father Christmas brings everyone plenty of nice P5 stuff.

Cheers,
Warwick.

[Deleted]

Warwick, I'd be interested to know the make of your air con or even a photo, as my donor saloon also has air con but I'm not sure whether it was a special order factory fit or an aftermarket addition. Merry Christmas. ScarlettWill.

[Warwick (Ozcoupe)]

Harvey,

Here are the photos of the recently acquired radiator. See my previous post for details.

Warwick.

[Warwick (Ozcoupe)]

scarlettwill said:

Warwick, I'd be interested to know the make of your air con or even a photo, as my donor saloon also has air con but I'm not sure whether it was a special order factory fit or an aftermarket addition. Merry Christmas. ScarlettWill.

ScarlettWill,

The installation was a Clyde - Vornado which was quite a common add-on aircon in Australia, back in those days before such things were factory-fitted. The evaporator unit is the only remaining original part. The condensor and plumbing are all reasonably new; as is the Japanese rotary compressor.

Clyde Industries was a large Australian heavy engineering company building things such as locomotives and rolling stock from the late 1800s.

I suspect that the aircon systems were built under license to a US company called Vornado. They appear to be still around, but not in automotive aircon.

I hope this is of some use.

Merry Christmas,
Warwick.

[dorsetflyer]

The radiator with its shroud is definitely off of a Rover P6B, the 3500 V8 version.
There would have been a label fixed to the top of the shroud centrally.
I believe the shroud was on there as some form of protection against the fan.
The radiator was slightly lower down than on P5B.

[Warwick (Ozcoupe)]

Thanks John.

That explains the higher fan location exhibited by the shroud.
I suppose the low nose of the P6 dictated a lower radiator.

Now I just have to find someone who needs a reco-ed P6B radiator.

Warwick.

[dorsetflyer]

I would think that moving it on should be quite easy given the amount of P6's around in contrast to the P5's, even in Oz.

[Warwick (Ozcoupe)]

Hope you're right John.

Perhaps I should go to the next club meeting with an icepick secreted on my person.
(Oops......scratch that thought).

Merry Christmas. Only an hour away here. Trying to get junior to go to bed!

[Warwick (Ozcoupe)]

Latest update.

The radiator definitely came from a 1974 (Aust. delivered) one owner P5B. So unless the owner had it modified for some odd reason, it seems as though the last of the Australian cars had some odd variations.

It's beginning to look as though BL may have been raiding the P6B parts bin for the last of the export cars.

I'm curious to know if anyone has first hand knowledge of this either in the UK or in an "export" country.

Warwick.
(PS. ScarlettWill..... I answered your question regarding the aircon, but it's now back on the previous page).

[Phil Nottingham]

If it did come with the p6 radiator as standard its not really surprising as by that time the P5B was doomed and dying and was being virtually hand built to order. Component supplies were regularly being disrupted by strikes within and without British Leyland as well. The were large open air compounds of incomplete cars waiting for missing parts to be fitted fortunately these were the volume production cars which by the time they were sold had alreday a years worth of corrosion with them.

Given the stop go production especially with low volume P5 production modifying some existing part to shift out some part completee orders would have been easy.

Rover when independent was a car assembler and not a car manufactuer and was well known for improvisation and swappings parts. Once it became a division of cah strapped BLMC tye use of cheaper common parts was stepped up.

[Warwick (Ozcoupe)]

The best example would probably have to be the Morris Marina door-handle.
They ended up on the 4-door Range Rover and TR7 down here. And probably a miriad of other cars in the UK that we never saw. (Austin Princess?)

The Lucas turn-indicator stalk switch from the Cortina (1967?) is probably another.

Leyland Australia was going through the same cash starvation back then too (naturally enough) and that really had an impact on the P76. It's a much maligned car and is considered to be an iconic lemon. But most people who criticize and laugh at it have never driven one or were not even around when it was new. It was miles ahead of the local GM Holden, Ford Falcon and Chrysler Valiant of the day in terms of design, ride, handling, and space. But it was well behind in terms of build quality.

The odd thing about this radiator is that the near side tank is big enough to take a much thicker core, but the off side tank is the same size as the core and the mounting brackets are shaped to accommodate the difference.

[Deleted]

cheers Warwick I just saw that , sorry but I've only just turned on pc after rotten flue all over xmas. when I'm able I'll get a photo of mine up. ScarlettWill