changing points and condenser

[daveh]

first let me make no excuses for forgetting how to re fit the points etc:
i took the old set out of the distributor and my phone rang, after a long
phone call i came back and started to fit the new points and condenser etc
the point i lost the plot is where the fibre washer goes? and the order the two
wires fit on the points contact heel i think the condenser wire was at the top
of the two wires fitted on the old points,but i cant remember how they were fitted
a quick run down on the re-fitting order and i would  be very grateful. i know it's years
since iv'e had a car with points /plugs etc: but it's something i have done many times in the past
i think i'm in need of keeping notes to save getting into embarrassing situations on what i'm sure
most would regard as a basic job. thanks in advance for any help/info etc: dave 

[Phil Nottingham]

Don't panic as my namesake would say

I rarely remember the order and just use logic.

The FIBRE insulator goes on first then points spring arm the condenser only for the only reason it should have a locating tab on it otherwise order not important, and then the CB flex to the dizzy  + the plastic top hat washer if not lost long ago and the the nut.  This is so all this is insulated from the CB spring. Its the the same for all Lucas 25D4/6 dizzies but if NOS Quickfit (inferior) CB's are used its different.

Skilled young mechanics of the 80's often got it wrong! It will not work if so as it just shorts out

BTW points are great - anything electronic and P5's are incompatible Rev counters especially

[daveh]

many thanks i feel fool ,lol but i could not remember how it all went back
i did have to make a wire up to fit from the heel of the condenser securing
bolt to that bolts to the distributor base plate, it looks like a extra earth wire,
the one that was fitted was just about to break. i will sort it all out tomorrow
in the day light

[barryr]

We've all done it!

I did same and car wouldn't start as I grounded the l.t.

Mobile phone cameras are really handy here for the odd quick reminder!

[Phil Nottingham]

The CORRECT baseplate earth tag is essential - its apparent soundness can cause all sorts of weird symptoms if its not

[daveh]

the earth wire i replaced was very flimsy and it was frayed at the eyelet connectors
so i made a bit stronger wire with new ring ends. that i hope will more than fit for purpose
hopefully the car will be running again tomorrow, my next job is to fit a working time clock,
the car came with it not working. i have asked david green if he has a working clock. hopefully
that will be a straight change over once i get a replacement.i'm slowly getting on top of most
of the little problems while the weather is rubbish. i dont usually move far in the winter months.

[Phil Nottingham]

The base-plate earth needs to be very limp to allow the vac advance to work unimpeded. Anything else will quickly fail through work hardening as the base plate rotates when the vacuum advance operates. Partial operation of the the vac advance will result in too much retard on part closed throttle/overun which causes jerking

[johnwp5bcoupe]

A bit late Photobucket was down! it may help someone

Control and + together to make the print larger for those who need it

[Phil Nottingham]

I have edited my initial comments to make them clearer as coincidentally I have just replaced the condenser on our 3 Litre as I was noticing misfire under load at speed - classic condenser failing.  I then noticed light powdery corrosion under the tab washers which would not have helped.

I also checked the plug and no 6 had heavy dry deposits signs of oil burning as I still only get 50 mmp.  Nos 5/6 cylinders always give problems as being at the back of the engine which slopes backwards runs the hottest although no water loss at all

[daveh]

sorry to say i still cant get the engine to fire it turns over etc: it looks like iv'e got everything grounded
i know i'm still making a mistake fitting the points, first new plugs fitted, leads and distributor cap and
the engine did start before i changed the points and condenser. after replacing the old contacts
it wont start, this is how i have fitted the points and condenser first the distributor has not been moved.
i removed the cap/rotor/condenser and the  points. and then re-fitted the new condenser,the  base plate of the points
followed by the spring part with the plastic bushes to isolate the spring eyelet from contacting with the post
i then put the fibre spacer washer on the terminal post  followed by the condenser lead and the lead
that goes to the distributor followed by the lock nut, then i turned the engine to set the heel of the points
on one of the raised points to set the points at 15 thou and locked the contact base plate to the dissy base
rotor and cap refitted. i hope this helps and someone can see where my mistake is.

[Phil Nottingham]

No the fibre washer goes on first before the spring arm  - see my original post

[johnwp5bcoupe]

If you cant read the instructions Dave you can just click on the image and hit the + in Photobucket

[daveh]

many thanks again i will try again, it looks like my mistake is thinking the plastic bushes
that are connected together and keep the eyelet end from contacting the terminal post 
also kept the spring from earthing on the points fixed base plate.

[Phil Nottingham]

Does this help?

[daveh]

i'm obviously missing something that shouldn't. i have tried the way as posted and still no joy
things confusing me are:- should both wires be fitted together and in contact with each other?
also do both wires need to be in contact with the points base plate when bolted on the post,
or should they be in contact with the contacts spring part under the sleeve that keeps the spring eyelet
from contacting the terminal post. i dont know if it makes any difference or if it uses different points my
distributor cap is the side fitting  and the points have two lock bolts and a adjustment screw to adjust the
contact setting, and a top hat type sleeve bush in two halves thats connected together for the eyelet on the spring
to stop and contact with the terminal post. sorry to be a pain but i just cant get it sorted

 

[Phil Nottingham]

As you have 2 Top hats - normally only one is needed these go in the eye of the contact spring so its insulated from the base plate AND post. The Top hat at the bottom replaces the fibre washer at the post base otherwise the points will not align properly. The 2 tag terminals go below the upper top hat in contact together (see my pic) followed by the nut.

To test without turning the engine flick points open and closed with a driver and with the ignition switched on - a park should jump across the points.

As long as its a 25D dizzy side entry and top entry caps will fit. Only MK1's had top entry with a DMBZ6 dizzy

What make points have you - post a photo?

[daveh]

many thanks again the points i have came from wadhams
with the service kit i got from them with filters etc. i have just had to come
in doors the weather is really poor and now it's sleeting like mad

[Phil Nottingham]

Will be OK then - dry, sunny and windy but very cold here especially now sun has gone.  I am back in too. Good luck tomorrow

[Phil Nottingham]

One more thought some point tips were coated to prevent tarnishing in storage. This also insulates. Clean off with petrol but do not use abrasive

[daveh]

i never thought of that i will clean the points and re-fit
i was just thinking about why the previous set had the fibre insulator
in the set up when the old points had the double top hat as well.

[daveh]

 this is a feed back and to thank  all for the help and information you gave me.
after i lost the plot re-fitting the points, everything is now working and the car running as normal
now i have fitted the wires as your instructions. next the wire from the distributor body/coil. is looking
a bit shredded and fitting a new connector at the points end of this wire is next before it snaps off
before that i'm going to give the car a run to clear the fumes and smell from the new manifold i fitted
then when i cools down i will sort the wire connector out

[Phil Nottingham]

Well at least you will remember next time?  I never do so will look out this thread

[barryr]

Although the points are fine and work well enough I bit the bullet and ditched them.

The kit I bought from power spark was good value and with a sports coil now gives much better sparks. I have kept the points and condenser that were known good just in case.

As much as I resist any mods, electronic ignition plus an electric fuel pump have transformed starting my car.

Great to here you are running again.

[daveh]

i did ask about electronic ignition ,even changing the distributor and dynamo to a alternator
my thoughts were could it be better if changed over, i know this would also mean changing from pos to neg earth
and possibly a new coil a new radio, clock and fuel pump would be also needed, and this could with the
cost of having the job done as it's beyond my electrical knowledge be very expensive plus there were
conflicting views on if it was even necessary or needed. but to get back to the pos earth elctronic distributor
i emailed  powerspark  about their Rover P4 P5 25D6 Positive Earth Electronic Ignition distributor
£79.95  NEW Electronic 25D6 Positive earth electronic distributor suitable for the 6 Cylinder Rover
P4 Inside the distributor is our Positive earth...in my mail i asked them if it needed a new coil or any other mod for
it to work on the p5, they never answered me so i decided to stay with the points etc:
and they lost a sale had this upgrade  been suitable for my needs.

[Phil Nottingham]

If the dizzy is not too worn that is a good move.  You do not need to change the clock or the twin fuel pump just to change the polarity however.  I am anti-electronic ignition having a number of units fail and cause inconvenient breakdowns.  Points systems give warning of failure or impending adjustment