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Post by djm16 on Apr 30, 2016 10:34:22 GMT
OK, its not a Rover, but really our garden tractor.
It was running absolutely fine, then this morning refused to start. The engine turns fine, a couple of coughs from the exhaust, then joyless cranking.
Glow plugs: I have taken out 4 of them. They look fine, they glow cherry red with 10A applied. The Glow +ve bus supplies current for 15-20s after turning the key - I have checked with a glow plug re-connected off the engine.
Fuel filter: no obvious air lock, I get good flow when I remove the exit pipe and pump it from the tit on the top.
Injectors: I have not taken any out, but I have disconnected the pipe from two of them to observe fuel flow. Approximately three drops per 2 revolutions. Three drops only even if the throttle is wide open.
Fuel shut off solenoid and anti-theft immobiliser: I have read that these can be a problem. That the solenoid can be replaced / immobiliser bypassed etc, but only if the injector pump is removed from the car, and that is a shed-load of work to only find out that the problem was elsewhere.
Any advice folks? I don't mind doing crappy jobs on the Rovers, but I do not do diesels for fun!
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Post by Colin McA on Apr 30, 2016 12:02:54 GMT
Think you should get more than a few drops. I would expect a spray of fuel.
Can you hear the pump prime when the ignition is switched on?
Can you bleed fuel though the lines before or after the filter?
I had a problem with a Kangoo van and wouldnt pump fuel through, turned out the timing belt had snappend and the pump was driven off the same timing belt.
olin
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Post by eightofthem (Andy) on Apr 30, 2016 17:00:01 GMT
Well you can sort of narrow it down a little.
Diesels work on compression rather than ignition so......
Glow plugs, not really cold enough to warrant it not starting, even if a glow plug or two have failed then it would eventually start through heat build up, and be very smoky.
So that leaves fuel and air, if you had issues with MAF sensors or air flow meters that would result in poor running rather than not starting, this leaves fuel as the possible culprit, Any air leaks in the system will cause problems, so check all fuel hoses for condition and security, also as mentiond earlier check how the pump is operated, is it belt / gear driven ? Make sure that whatever turns it is still able to do so, finally the fuel cut off solenoid, it will have one, this sounds like it might be the issue here, I had a problem with a fuel suction valve on the pump, this caused poor idle and poor performance rather than not starting, but still pump related.
So I would be looking at fuel as the issue, I doubt it would have lost compression overnight.
Check all the obvious first, also look closely at the cut off solenoid, especially the wiring to it and the relay that operates it.
I also had an issue with the immobiliser on a diesel model, that was linked to the cut off solenoid, I just wired it directly to the ignition switch to get it home, that turned out to be corrosion in the main fuse board and a bad connection to the relay.
Good luck.
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Post by moonraker on Apr 30, 2016 20:15:26 GMT
Hi
I had something similar on a 3 litre Hilux Surf I owned a few years ago. It would not start. So, here's what I did, after a lot of investigating more complex things -
I replaced the fuel filter head ( the bit with the primer tit ), I used a Mitsubishi filter head ( and filter to suit ), mainly because it was a lot cheaper than a Toyota part, and it looked the same. I narrowed it down to the rubber diaphragm in the filter head, possibly being old, perished and no longer air-tight, letting air into the system.
After I fitted the new filter head and priming, it started first time. The fuel hoses went on the Mitsubishi filter head OK.
Hope that helps. Good luck with it.
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Post by djm16 on Apr 30, 2016 23:16:24 GMT
At least I am not alone!
There is no fuel pump mentioned in the manual, just a switch over solenoid, and fuel filter and a pump/injector driven by the timing belt.
At 150,000 km it seems a little early for the injector to just fail which as has been suggested does sound like the immobiliser / fuel shut off. It just is a bit puzzling that I still get a few drops out of the injectors with each revolution rather than a complete absence of fuel.
So I have decided I would rather pay $(quite a few) to a mechanic rather than spend days futzing myself, not least because the physical contortions required to even get to the engine were giving my back and knees hell, AND I have a new Rover project sitting out in the rain.
So thanks for the advice.
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Post by eightofthem (Andy) on May 1, 2016 8:54:27 GMT
If you want to eliminate the fuel supply lines / filter, then you could rig up an external fuel tank and supply fuel by gravity direct to the pump, just make sure everything is clean as it will not be filtered, and place a long hose from the filter supply into a suitable container in case fuel starts to flow from the filter.
The spill return should still work back through the filter to the main tank.
If it starts this way then you know where to go from here, and it eliminates other possibilities.
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Post by djm16 on May 1, 2016 13:56:39 GMT
Yup. Thanks, did that, and no different.
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Post by eightofthem (Andy) on May 1, 2016 16:00:30 GMT
Yup. Thanks, did that, and no different. Then your problem is pump related, failing as you have discribed it points to cut off solenoid or immobiliser if wired within the pump circuit. ( have you tried gently tapping the pump just in case the valve has stuck ? ) |
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Post by Warwick on May 2, 2016 4:04:28 GMT
A tip for next time. No need to remove glow plugs to test them. Just remove the common (+)wire that supplies them all, so that they're electrically disconnected, and use a multimeter to check their resistance. Put one probe on the plug's terminal and the other on the cylinder head. If the meter shows the plug is open circuit (infinite resistance), then the plug is dead. If it doesn't, the plug is good. I don't know what the glow plug access is like on the Landcruiser, but if it is awkward, here's a minor modification that helps. The following 2 photos are of my 1983 505. Access wasn't too bad but these changes made diagnosis much easier. I removed the (+)wire that joins all the plugs together and terminated it at a bolt I put through the flange of the plastic cooling system expansion tank. This gave me a heavy stud on an insulated surface. I then ran a heavy wire from each glow plug to the stud. With this arrangement, if starting becomes difficult and you suspect a dead glow plug, you simply remove the 4 glow plug wires from the stud and test each one with the multimeter. You can identify the dead plug without all the effort of gaining access to each plug.   The next 2 photos are for the same modification on my 1998 406 where glow plug access would drive Houdini insane.   |
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Post by eightofthem (Andy) on May 2, 2016 9:07:04 GMT
Is that the XUD engine in the 405 Warwick? I had a succession of 218 / 418 Rovers fitted with the XUD7T lump, absolutely bullet proof engines, they just went on and on, I also had a 205 back in the day that was fitted with the N/A XUD, you could hear me coming which was good near schools, gave the kids time to get out of the way  My 418 tourer is still alive, which brings me back on the subject, the 418 was the car that had the immobiliser issue as mentioned above ( common on the model ) it was the only time it failed to start. Brilliant cars, if I had my way we would still have it. |
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Post by Warwick on May 3, 2016 7:53:01 GMT
Is that the XUD engine in the 405 406 Warwick? ... Hi Andy, Yes, it's the XUD11, 2.1L 12-valve.  |
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Post by djm16 on May 8, 2016 4:22:04 GMT
Problem resolution.
I had the car (truck?) towed to a specialist repair shop.
They removed the injector pump, broke off the immobiliser (the unit is untestable with the immobiliser in place), cleaned it out and put it back on.
I am pleased to say that not only does it work, but it starts instantly and runs even more smoothly than I remember, and it was pretty smooth before.
The answer was (and is in 80%) Of cases - the immobiliser.
The cost? a round $1000 inc the tow.
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Post by eightofthem (Andy) on May 8, 2016 10:31:49 GMT
Glad to hear you found the problem, thanks for letting us know.
Costly, but worth it.
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Post by Warwick on May 9, 2016 2:52:48 GMT
So the immobilizer was doing its job then.  |
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