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Post by daveh on Jun 19, 2016 15:44:11 GMT
in my p5 i have a Motorola radio with 5 push buttons for station set up and it works with only a very limited number of channels that work. what i need to ask is this the original radio or has it been changed at some time in the past? i ask this because i made a trip to Manchester and found a shop that stocks and sells retro radio's for 1930 to 1970's cars and they say they have them in stock with a 1 year guarantee that they have converted to receiver FM radio chns and they also have some set up for CD's etc:i didn't speak to anyone as it's run buy one person who had on his window he was often out and ring before calling, plus his website where i found the above info plus more from, i wondered has anyone had this type of radio conversion, i'm going to go for, i will add a picture of my radio and the website for any members who may be interested, now the clock it doesn't work are new clocks sold if yes what size is the p5 clock thanks in advance for any help/info etc: www.the-thompson-brown-family.co.uk/links/pages/vintagewireless.htm Attachments:
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Post by lagain on Jun 19, 2016 18:03:52 GMT
I doubt if this is the original radio. The cars were not sent from the factory with a radio, but the dealer would then fit what the customer required. Assuming your radio has FM, MW and possibly LW it should be able to pick up the stations a domestic radio can. Have you checked the aerial. I have an MP3 transmitter that plugs into the cigar lighter, it is loaded with all my favourite albums and plays them through the radio. www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=mp3+car+transmitter&_sop=15 |
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Post by daveh on Jun 19, 2016 18:24:51 GMT
there's no FM on this radio and it pick up interference
from the dynamo but i haven't checked for a suppressor
this is a really old radio just MW and LW and it only
picks up a very few stations mainly talk. that's why i
want to get a more modern radio, i have read that
Auto sound sell positive earth converter but i don't
know enough about car electrics or just how good
they are.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jun 19, 2016 20:10:49 GMT
Only the really expensive Bosch Blue Spot preset radios had FM and were rare on P5's which had as Rover approved option the Radio-mobilemanual or preset LW/MW models only from 1959 to 1974 with varying amount of transistors all of which are well past their sell by date. Our Radio-mobiles on the P4/P5 and P5B work reasonably well in the UK but the signal does vary and many stations are just not on it now as of now - in Ireland there is no reception at all on any of them this year:-/
Retro new and conversions now seem the only option with USB input as AM broadcasting will cease entirely shortly although date has moved on a number of times.
No point in having a polarity converter just swap around the battery terminals and coil connection (+ refurb tacho and swap over ammeter conversions on Coupes.
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Post by daveh on Jun 19, 2016 20:48:50 GMT
once again many thanks for the input,a plus another way to solve the
problem of up grading the radio, if going for a polarity change
would it be worth fitting a RAC023 dynolite alternator that has the fitting
for the power steering pump and looks more or less the same size and uses
the front pulley wheel from the dynamo? also will the wiper motor and petrol pump
still work after changing to neg earth? i know the clock wont but thats not
working and needs a replacement along with a retro type radio, my car doesn't
have the tacho or ammeter to worry about, having said all this i would get auto electrician
to change the polarity over
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jun 19, 2016 21:14:14 GMT
As I said everything else incl the clock should work although yours looks to be the Mk1 type not the electric wound Keinzle/Motometer/VDO fitted to all the others and numerous other British cars right into the 1980's and these are cheap <50p and are a straight fit - the new *(expensive) Dynalite seems a good idea if you are increasing the load with Halogens and other high-load equipment (such as?)
I still have the dynos on the P4 and P5 which I drive throughout the year in day or night with all weathers. The wiper motor will work on an polarity. Plenty more on search but a lot of ~~~~ is out on the WWW on this topic and also alternators over dynos
Note the Dyno wiring would need upgrading/replacing with a Dynolite alternator and the 30A ammeter would not cope so would need the 60A P5B shunted type so not a straight conversion and hardly warranted IMO
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Post by djm16 on Jun 20, 2016 1:45:11 GMT
Phil!
Any shunt diodes will blow, or worse go short circuit and cause a fire. Notably if you have a 2nd gear hold actuator.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jun 20, 2016 14:08:03 GMT
No shunt diodes are on present on P5's except perhaps in the old type Smith clock and a radio of course Some SU pumps had them but no problem to swap round or remove. The second gear hold is purely mechanical via an external solenoid on DG's
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Post by daveh on Jun 20, 2016 16:51:34 GMT
after reading your post i think i will also stay with the dynamo and disconnect the clock and radio before the change over, ready for new neg earth clock and radio after the changer i found this wiring diagram that i have added but the regulator in the doc is different to my p51a regulator i only have three B D F terminals, but on the wiring diagrams it's A F D E wired. but it's the same for both poss and neg earth. so i take it there is no need to change anything on the regulator in my car,? i also read this and don't know if it applies to my set up. Your battery's NEGATIVE terminal should be connected to the chassis or frame. Disconnect the D & F wires from the dynamo. Run a wire from the unearthed terminal on the battery (i.e. positive) and "flash" it onto the F terminal on the dynamo. By flash I mean brush it over the F terminal 2 or 3 times until a small blue spark can be seen. Your dynamo's field is now polarised for negative earth and ready to safely connect to an electronic regulator ALL ELECTRONIC REGULATORS ARE POLARITY SENSITIVE!!! FOR THIS REASON IT IS IMPORTANT TO MAKE SURE YOUR DYNAMO IS CORRECTLY POLARIZED. THE REGULATOR COULD BE DAMAGED IF IT IS NOT UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES CONNECT AN ELECTRONIC REGULATOR TO ANY DYNAMO WITHOUT POLARIZING IT CORRECTLY FIRST. I CAN'T STRESS THIS ENOUGH. to polarise my dynamo the battery cable to the starter is'nt long enough to reach the dyno can i use a length of heavy household electrical cable from the battery to polarise the dyno? Attachments:
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Post by djm16 on Jun 20, 2016 23:13:00 GMT
Phil, as you know I very rarely disagree with you as I regard you as an impeccable source of knowledge and understanding, however my very original P5 mk2b coupe has a shunt diode across the 2nd gear hold solenoid as standard. When the PO turned the battery around, the diode went short circuit. So when I engaged the 2nd gear hold soon after getting the car, the wiring harness caught fire. It was a mega PITA to replace all the burned wire that resulted.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jun 21, 2016 16:52:21 GMT
Neither of my Mk2's have a shunt diode over the 2nd gear "hold" Its not a true hold either just a delay up change on the kick-down cable.
Perhaps exports were different or both mine have had them removed.
Mk 1 autos had merely a manual pull cable
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Post by djm16 on Jun 21, 2016 23:38:47 GMT
 Here is a picture of the original (blown) diode on the top of my solenoid. |
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Jun 22, 2016 8:04:03 GMT
Interesting looked through all my circuits there is no diode shown! could this be a later edition done by? to prevent spikes interfering with the AM radio? the diode looks a bit later? just a thought  |
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Post by daveh on Jun 22, 2016 12:48:23 GMT
i don't see anything like that om my mk1a and i cant find
anything in the wm , so i am just going to do as Phil says
and change the wiring over to neg earth and flash the dynamo
then i can get a new radio fitted and search for a clock as mine
hasn't work since i got it.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jun 22, 2016 20:42:14 GMT
Not on any of mine and not very well installed either - poor wiring practice and asking for trouble so not a Rover Co fitment. Mind you the cap does seem to have some provision for something to bridge the gap?
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Post by daveh on Jun 23, 2016 9:49:23 GMT
i have now just bought a new old stock
KIENZLE IN CAR CLOCK 12 Volt that the seller says it's been tested
and is in Working Order, and it fits ,Triumph,Rover,Porsche,Mercedes,Vw cars.
and just to clarify the following before i do the change over which is the field terminal
on the dynamo? i take it the wire colour is different for both electrical posts? i just want
to be certain i flash the correct post for the polarity change. i know you said the wipers work
on either polarity , do the heater and petrol motors also work? finally dose the wiring on the ammeter
need changing round? i wont fit the clock or a radio until the change to neg earth
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Jun 23, 2016 10:29:17 GMT
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Post by daveh on Jun 23, 2016 18:57:35 GMT
This explains it Dave REVERSE POLARITY********************************************** many thanks john a very informative doc and after reading it says the heater motor needs the wiring changed round and on the p5 the wires from the motor go via a couple of bullet connectors near the heater motor under the bonnet. so thats easy, the only thing with big hands is changing the ammeter wires round, that could be a challenge, plus making sure i flash the correct field connector.on the dyno. i have removed the clock and radio, and the radio is a monster and very heavy held in with lots of bolts. it still has a label on it stating it came from motor world radio , Edgware road London made under license from Motorola Chicago i bet that shops long gone |
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Post by djm16 on Jun 25, 2016 3:10:57 GMT
1] Viz a viz the 2nd gear hold solenoid and diode. This car I am sure was untouched since 1963 judging from the receipts that came with it. Moreover the plastic isolator on top of the solenoid has a neat cut-out for the diode to fit into. I understand from Phil that Mk1 3 litres had a manual rather than solenoid operated hold, therefore it does not apply to the OP.
2] Unless owner is replacing the dynamo with an alternator, I fail to see the point of changing the polarity. When you look at all the things that need to be checked / changed, in comparison installing an isolated DC-DC converter is a piece of piss.
- change electric tacho for a -ve earth one
- check petrol pump for diode or capacitor suppression
- reverse polarity on windscreen washer
- ditto heater motor
- reverse polarity on ignition coil
- check if electronic ignition installed
- swap the terminals on ammeter
- lastly, flash the dynamo, although this may not be necessary. (BTW the easiest way to do this is to have leave everything as is, remove the regulator cover, then briefly close the cut out points - they will want to stay closed, so be ready to lever them apart. Note they get very hot very quickly, so wear gloves. Good idea to have someone standing by to disconnect the battery if you get into trouble).
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Jun 25, 2016 11:37:16 GMT
Any caps wont be polarity conscious they will be paper 0.1uF- 1uf for suppression.
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Post by djm16 on Jun 25, 2016 14:12:25 GMT
quite so. My statement is ambiguous.
Capacitors - OK but not very effective at suppression.
Diode - polarity sensitive but highly effective.
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Post by daveh on Jun 25, 2016 19:16:48 GMT
tomorrow i,m going open the binnacle to change the ammeter wires round
and with the heater motor wires changed round, i have a couple of questions if
anyone can help please,
[1] does the washer bottle pump need the wires changing?
[2] are the armature and field posts marked D and F on the dynamo case?
to be certain i arc the correct post to change the polarity. and then i can get the
car on negative earth by flashing the field terminal
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jun 26, 2016 17:42:38 GMT
I have changed polarity many times and only once had to flash it when it was perfectly clear it was not charging. As such try it without flashing as if done incorrectly it can cause other problems.
Heater motors are may or may not be polarity sensitive - again try it before
I only convert if I want to fit an alternator and/or modern radio etc. The P4, P5 and P2 are all positive earth still
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Post by daveh on Jun 26, 2016 18:11:00 GMT
many thanks apart from the dynamo polarising, this is from one of tutorials
that confused me as my dynamo connects both wire to the current voltage regulator
and i was thinking if not flashed on the field post for negative earth it could damage this unit
even though they are speaking about electronic regulators
Your battery's NEGATIVE terminal should be connected to the chassis or frame.
Disconnect the D & F wires from the dynamo. Run a wire from the unearthed terminal on the battery
(i.e. positive) and "flash" it onto the F terminal on the dynamo. By flash I mean brush it over the F terminal 2 or 3 times
until a small blue spark can be seen. Your dynamo's field is now polarised for negative earth and ready to safely connect
to an electronic regulator
it does say change wires over for any motor like heater electric windows or power hoods
this is not a problem as everything is easy to get at even the ammeter wire change over
is accessible by easing the binnacle open slightly
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Post by daveh on Jun 27, 2016 14:29:50 GMT
just a update on the dynamo flashing on a p5 for anyone
needing to change their dynamo polarity.after lots of checking
around the terminal posts on the dynamo, the posts are one below the other on the side
i could not find any D or F marks on the dynamo body to identify the posts for wiring .
both wires are on spade terminals and both wires are yellow, looking at the control box end
i found the D wire was thicker than the F wire plus the wiring is a lot cleaner and easier to see
the true colour, as before both are yellow but the F wire looks like it has a tinge of green in the
insulation covering and back at the dynamo body the F wire is located on the top terminal. and the
tutorial on changing polarity needs to be flashed once the neg post is connected to the vehicle chassis
then after it's changed the field coils polarity and the other items wires have been move around. you fully
connect the battery.
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