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Post by p5tgc on Aug 14, 2006 9:59:36 GMT
It should not be forgotten that the original car competitions designated "Concours d' Elegance" had nothing at all to do with the supposed originality of the entered car. Quite the reverse in fact! These classifications were for cars which had been modified to add to the standard level of equipment, all the way up to the "Docker Daimlers" style of excess. These classes were even part of events such as the Monte Carlo Rally right up to the 1960s. I quote from Stuart Turner's autobiography "Twice Lucky"... "After that Monte (1959) I got a lift back to England with Eric Mather and Ian Hall in Ted Lambert's Morris Minor, which had been entered for the prestigious Concours d'Elegance. This was taken quite seriously in those days and the Minor had leopard skin seat covers and almost everything else, plus a lavatory in the back...." unquote So who says Concours should now be all about factory originality? If the car is prized as being a time warp from the 1950s / 1960s should not the event in which it is being judged also conform to the spirit of that same age?
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Aug 14, 2006 16:20:38 GMT
It would seem Trevor what is required is a clear Standard of Points or as in earlier posts different classes where it is clear what is required to enter that particular class, otherwise it would seem to be a huge Grey area which can be interpreted to suit whoever is doing the judging and awards given on a personal choice.
Your quote :- "So who says Concourse should now be all about factory originality? If the car is prized as being a time warp from the 1950s / 1960s should not the event in which it is being judged also conform to the spirit of that same age?"
Is very profound and I don't understand what you are trying to get across? "spirit of that same age" would that include chroming parts that were never meant to be chromed to enhance the looks just for display purposes?
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Post by lagain on Aug 14, 2006 21:51:11 GMT
Interesting points. My experience with the P5 club is that 'concours' entrants tend to be cars prepared to an original specification. Any car 'over chromed' would be refered to the modified section. Personally I would like to see more modified cars. Many years ago, it could have been Street Machine, featured a metalic blue P5 that was very customised, it looked fantastic, and at least the car was still on the road. Different clubs have different views about these things and no doubt Rover owners tend to be more conservative . A couple of years ago I went to a Stag national and the cars entered in the concours were quite amazing, there were probably half a dozen. They had all been rebuilt, some virtually from scrap, and they all sparkled with mirror paint and chrome, a different class to the few 'original' Stags that had survived . I have never seen a P5 restored to that standard, but each year the cars at the national seem to get better, so perhaps drop concours and just have Car of the Show which could include modified and those with 'work in progress'
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Aug 15, 2006 5:56:22 GMT
Thats fine George for the guys who can afford all the"extras" and like the bling and to modify that is a class for them,but the guys/ladies who keep the old girls on the road looking good and running well where would you put them? and others like myself who are trying to stick to the "as turned out from factory" look! I won't mention "original"!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2006 9:05:44 GMT
From a professional point of view, "Concours" cars are often the worst driving cars. They are stripped and cleaned so often that the throttle, clutch and suspension settings are lost. They can perform poorly but look a million dollars!! Give me a perfectly maintained but scruffy looking car any day!! Cheers
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Aug 15, 2006 16:19:38 GMT
Sounds like mine
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2006 9:22:04 GMT
Hi Phil, my Coupe passed its MOT on Saturday with flying colours, it's 12th MOT in my ownership, all passed without any problems. Cheers Ady
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Post by glennr on Aug 16, 2006 13:53:29 GMT
Good news Ady ;D
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Aug 16, 2006 16:04:34 GMT
So did mine on 31st July but it was noted that the "new" suspension bushes and rear spring mounts replaced only 8 years are cracking badly so its looks like these will need doing (again!) soon.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Aug 16, 2006 16:05:51 GMT
Whats this "flying colours" are they "origional" good news Ady I wish it was my time
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Post by lagain on Aug 17, 2006 20:48:19 GMT
Well, John, what I meant is to have say six awards, rather than specific categories, but you will always find that these go to the more attractive cars and popular colours. I have to say I can't really understand why trophies have to be given out at virtually every show. Some of the best shows I have been to have been the ones without awards, where it is just a social gathering. If you are restoring your car you should do it how you want, as that will be most rewarding.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Aug 18, 2006 5:50:09 GMT
Your last sentence George is what it is all about. how much you do yourself or how much you pay others to do is up to you! A social gathering is the best part of a day out I agree one with a pub even better , but trophies on the day should (particularly at a small meet) take in all types of car present as per previous suggestions, at least give the guy/lady who drives miles in a good to average car a chance to have a trophy to stick on the dash (not physically) on the homeward journey . What would be your 6 awards george at a small meet?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2006 10:16:28 GMT
May I add my vote on the choice of awards?
1) Most original 2) The Car you'd like to take home! (not your own!) 3) Most modified car (including excess re-chroming etc!) 4) Furthest travelled (To encourage owners to travel that bit further afield) 5) Nicest Coupe 6) Nicest Saloon
This is just my spur of the momment thoughts !
Have a dry weekend!!
Adrian
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Aug 18, 2006 16:28:06 GMT
Very good for the "spur of the moment" Adrian a fair accross the board selection
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Post by lagain on Aug 19, 2006 20:40:46 GMT
most shiney ;D most original most miles per year most miles to event most minging most blinged
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Post by Smallfry on Aug 19, 2006 23:40:29 GMT
What about awards for the best green one or red one, or white one etc.
Hey....and just to be properly PC, lets not forget awards for ethnic and other minority groups.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Aug 20, 2006 5:12:02 GMT
Your suggestions George are in line with Adrians slightly upbeat but that's fine they cover most cars! what about something for the ladies who turn up with their hubbies and have to "sit and wait" while they talk "Rover speak" I think smallfry the colours would fall into one of George's suggested classes I think the ethnic and minorities classes would mean they were at the wrong meet/show
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Post by PatMcCoy on Aug 20, 2006 6:24:50 GMT
I think this thread is starting to drag a bit Its your car and you should do what you want As for rewards,best this, best that, who cares thought this site was to help people mantain the cars and keep this dear old rover on the road, and not be scraped
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Aug 20, 2006 7:48:29 GMT
A thread is a thread Pat your opinion is your opinion users can read/answer it's up to them!! I agree with a lot you say Pat but there are plenty of places to ask for and give advice! this one is the correct on for this type of discussion! dispite what you say there are a lot of guys who do enjoy showing off what their dedication to the "dear old Rover" has produced, some are more dedicated than others! Isn't good we all have an opinion? and a choice? and they do care!! I think this thread is starting to drag a bit Its your car and you should do what you want As for rewards,best this, best that, who cares thought this site was to help people mantain the cars and keep this dear old rover on the road, and not be scraped
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Post by dorsetflyer on Aug 22, 2006 18:38:49 GMT
I had an interesting chat to a member of the public last night while we had our classics cars on the Esplanade here in Weymouth. Having read the description of the car and looked and sat inside it he asked if he could have a look under the bonnet. When I lifted it his first remark was that it was great to see the layout as it was intended to be, a working vehicle clean and tidy and not bulled up with polish and chrome everywhere. He just wanted to see a genuine engine compartment. I thought of this thread at the time and maybe the public is not very turned on with the added bling etc.
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Post by Smallfry on Aug 22, 2006 22:49:05 GMT
I think you are right John. Although I do like out and out hot rods or custom cars.....call it what you will, I think that on a more or less standard and well kept (or not) car, underbonnet chrome and excessive polishing looks completely wrong.
I was looking at one of customers Jaguar 240 today........3/4 finished total resto job, and it looks absolutely superb, even with just the carb dashpots polished. Don't need anything else !
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Aug 23, 2006 6:09:05 GMT
I have found my "Sole Mate" I agree smallfry I like to see a customized car to that is exactly what they are "customized" If it is a Rover P5b or what ever! that is what it should look like "came out of the factory yesterday look" or best efforts to make it look that way, if the engine looks as though it has been used fine! it's an engine not a chrome tea service!
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Post by lagain on Aug 24, 2006 21:07:14 GMT
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Post by lagain on Aug 24, 2006 21:16:12 GMT
It has taken me 2 hours to put this picture on. Just to keep this well worn thread going a little longer ! Is it original or blinged. Nothing has been chromed. When I first had the car I sprayed the engine bay with waxoyl, it took many hours to get it off, but now a couple of hours in the winter is enough to keep it looking nice
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Post by harvey on Aug 24, 2006 21:27:18 GMT
Is it original or blinged? I would say it's neither, but it is definately very nice!
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