V8 engine rebuild

[petervdvelde]

Have started with the engine. I have 3 V8 engine. An original P5B engine out of the spare car but this engine has a rope seal so i didn't want to use it. Then i have a 3.9l engine which was fitted to the "driver" P5B. I drove this car (on LPG) for approx 10.000km without problems and hardly oil and water consumption. Then i have a 3,5 SD1 engine which i bought from a scrapyard with an LT 77 for Euro 250,- approx. 10 years ago as a spares engine for my MGB. 10 years ago, I opened the engine at home and found it was overhauled recently. I removed the pistons and put these in a box, greased the bores and crank shaft and other parts and it has been standing in my garden shed for approx 10 years.

i first dismantled the 3,9l


Because the car was running on LPG the engine was very clean inside.

The combustion chambers also looked very good


The crankshaft bearings looked pretty worn as the brass was visible on a few main bearing shells

Measuring the pistons and bores of the 3.9 engine showed a clearance of more then 0,1mm so these would need a rebore according factory specs.

Then took the 3.5l Sd1 engine out of the shed


The grease lasted well and no corrosion was visible on the bores or the crankshaft and other steel components.

Made 2 storage components for the valves and related parts


On the left side the 3.9 components  which show the original rockers. On the right side the 3.5 components which show after market steel rockers.

Underneath a picture of one 3.9 lit rocker shaft (RH) and one aftermarket rocker shaft (LH). The picture shows wear on the 3.9l shaft and no wear on the 3.5l aftermarket shaft


Underneath the 3.5 camshaft (LH) and the 3.9 camshaft. The black marks from the hardening proces on the 3.5 shaft have not fully gone so it has not done many miles since fitting. The 3.9 shaft shows some pitting on the cam lobes but is not worn.



Here a picture of a piston from the 3.5 engine on the LH side which is really almost new and a picture of a 3.9 piston (RH)

I have a preference for the 3.9l heads because of better breathing but inspection showed that the valve seats of the 3.9 were worn.
The picture of the valves underneath shows that the valves seats are worn.


More to come soon.

Peter

[eightofthem (Andy)]

Can't wait. Looking forward to it!

[petervdvelde]

Here some more pictures of the rebuild in progress


I checked the clearance between valves and valve guides and on a few the clearance was more then 0,1 mm. The inlet valves showed a fair amount of carbon deposits so i decided to replace the guides. Also because the Sd1 guides have these foolish rubber rings as oil seal and i wanted to fit the later type guides which have a decent seal.


The guides came out well but needed a fair amount of hammering with a heavy hammer. On the LH side you find the SD1 guides, on the RH the later type guides, one with the oil seal removed and one with the oil seal still fitted. In the middle you find a tool i asked a friend to machine which is really needed otherwise the guides will deform when hammering out.
I have an official Rover SD1 WSM and this states that the guide have to be hammered out from the valve side. I did this with an exhaust valve guide on the 3.9 heads and carbon deposits reamed out the hole in the head. So i decided to hammer out the guides on the Sd1 head from the rocker side. It is very difficult to clean all carbon deposits from the guide.



Decided to bead blast the heads and the front cover because there were lots of corrosion spots


Here 1 of the heads done and the difference is clearly visible

i also grinded away a lot of casting burs and sharp edges before the shot blasting.

Thats it for now. I need to remove the green painting from the engine block, remove the camshaft bearings and then clean all parts.
and also order new parts.

Peter

[petervdvelde]

i forgot to leave compliment for the new forum. It is much easier to upload pictures now

Peter

[petervdvelde]

The bearings came out well


I removed the green paint with paint stripper and cleaned the outside with a rotating wire brush


[
Then cleaned the inside of the engine and all oil canals with small brushes. Also cleaned all the threads. As i don't have a UNC tap set i made some sleeves in old bolts and used these as a tap.

Now will order all the parts for the engine. Will also get the last batch for powder coating out with the sump, the pully's and some brackets.
It has become a rather large batch as i also dismantled the complete interior.


Also have the last batch for zinc coating out


regards

Peter

[eightofthem (Andy)]

WOW
some hard work going on there peter. Going to look stunning

[bydand]

Looking forward to this rebuild too ! Good way to learn a lot, courage and hope to see the rest with eagerness. Cordially Yann

[Deleted]

You deserve a compliment too Peter both for the work done and the information shared. Pet af!

[petervdvelde]

Thanks Yann and Peter. Now i am waiting for the parts to arrive. In the meantime i refurbished the alternator and starter motor. On my parts car i found that the starter motor and alternator were overhauled. On both there was a sticker which showed an overhaul date of 1987. After dismantling both no wear was found so it must have been a short timespan between overhaul and the moment the car was laid up. The aluminium parts had corrosion marks so i head blasted these, polished the aluminium alternator parts, painted the coils and had all the bolts zinc coated after cleaning these. As a precaution i replaced the alternator bearings.
Underneath some pictures

[petervdvelde]

The parts for rebuiding the V8 arrived. I bought all the parts from Jim Robinson (JRV8) who rebuilds V8 engines for a living. Some time ago he managed to find a 4ZF HP22 for me and communication and supply went very smooth so i choose him to supply the V8 parts. And he didn't disappoint me: gives prompt answers on questions, gives a clear overview of possible options together with his own valuable experience and quick delivery. Really a nice professional to deal with.

[petervdvelde]

Something went wrong. Didn't see the pictures when making the thread. Apologizes for the identical pictures.
 

The plugs as fitted on 1 of the sides. I put some fluid gasket into the bores where the plugs were fitted


And the rear plugs


Then fitted the new camshaft bearings


Started with the rear one and you have to sure that it is going in straight and therefore i measured the distances on 4 positions and put a little grease on the outside of the bearing

The oil feed hole in bearing must be aligned with the oil feed in the engine

Pulling in the bearings went smooth. There is not much force needed




I also fitted ARP studs instead of the crankshaft bolts. The studs have finer and high quality threads with special threadlube and the amount of torque for setting preload is much more precise and controlled then with the standard crankshaft bolts fitted to the aluminum engine.


The studs fitted to the engine


Time for a cuppa as Andy always says

regards

Peter

[eightofthem (Andy)]

Time for a cuppa as Andy always says

regards

Peter
[/quote]


Well deserved too
Nice work, as always Peter, and good pictures as well.
Thanks for taking the time to record your work and to show us the results, I enjoy following all who post on here, keep it up.

[petervdvelde]

Thanks Andy. I really enjoyed your thread on the BW35.

I have fitted the valve guides in the heads. To compensate the 10deg angle, i made a jig from scrap metal




Before pressing in the guides, i heated the heads in an old kitchen oven which i lengthened so the heads would fit in. From efficiency point of view not so good but it does the job well.

[petervdvelde]

Pushed the wrong bottom


The oven to heat the heads

I decided to reduce the oversize to 0,02mm. I did this with a drill and some sanding paper and intermediate measurement to avoid that the diameter would be too small


[
A picture showing pressing the guides with help of the guidance tool between press and guide.

After pressing in the guides, i used some grinding paste to check if the valve seats would need a re cut.
This was not necessary. All valve seats showed a nice even grey grinding line afterwards

[petervdvelde]

The RH inlet valve seat (marked with the arrow) showes the even grey circle f a grinded seat. The LH inlet valve seat is shiney and not grinded yet.

The LH valve showes a grey circle and has been grinded. The RH still needs to be grinded.

Now i am waiting for a large diameter polishing wheel to get the crankshaft bearing journals polished up. Also i will bring the heads to a mashining company for skimming.

Regards

Peter

[johnwp5bcoupe]

Some good work Peter but there should be no need to remove any material from the outside of the guides! as to fitting the guides I would advise against pressing them in it is best to heat the heads as hot as you can and use a air impact gun with a correct drift short sharp blows is the only way IMHO as pressing can cause binding and tear the aluminium as you press the guides in.

[petervdvelde]

Thanks John,
I read your excellent article in the last "Take Five" and also read your warning not to use a press when fitting the guides. When overhauling the RV8 in my MGB, i also used a press for fitting the guides and this worked very well.
So i decided to use the press again especially when you look at the reduced diameter at the top of the guide where the seal is fitted. I didn't prefer the hammering option because it could upset the small valve guide diameter at he top and my believe is that a press with a scale is more controlled. Did you have troubles yourself in the past when fitting the guides with a press?

I also asked my parts supplier (Jim Robinson) who overhauls V8's for a living and he prefers to use a press.

Well, there are always different thoughts about how to do a certain job and this time the good thing is that both methods seem to work fine
Regards
Peter

[johnwp5bcoupe]

May 24, 2013 21:11:09 GMT petervdvelde said:

Thanks John,
I read your excellent article in the last "Take Five" and also read your warning not to use a press when fitting the guides. When overhauling the RV8 in my MGB, i also used a press for fitting the guides and this worked very well.
So i decided to use the press again especially when you look at the reduced diameter at the top of the guide where the seal is fitted. I didn't prefer the hammering option because it could upset the small valve guide diameter at he top and my believe is that a press with a scale is more controlled. Did you have troubles yourself in the past when fitting the guides with a press?

I also asked my parts supplier (Jim Robinson) who overhauls V8's for a living and he prefers to use a press.

Well, there are always different thoughts about how to do a certain job and this time the good thing is that both methods seem to work fine
Regards
Peter

Hi Peter it is a known fact for many years ask any good head refurbisher that when steel and aluminium are pressed together as with the valve guides you can tear the smooth surface of the bore in the head as the aluminium will bind, with short sharp strokes on a hot head this does not happen, you can feel the guide binding when you do it this way the press will not feel a thing plus you have more control on a flat bench, you can also freeze the guides this will make the job even easier.

The guides should be removed in the same way in the same direction as fitting towards the valve seats.

Using a correct drift Peter there is no problem fitting the guides as long as you get the heads very hot they drive in easily and for the average guy it is the best/safest method. If you can't borrow an impact driver a club hammer and the correct drift will work just as well, the drifts are available from various places inc Fleabay

[petervdvelde]

Another advice i got which may be useful for anybody who considers to replace the guides in the future, is to drill out the guides until a minimum wall remains. The guides are then very easy to remove and avoids that hard carbon deposits on the guides "eat" the aluminum in the head and make the holes in the head to big for fitting new guides.
Regards

Peter

[Dean Hovland]

Where did you buy your mild road cam peter ?

[cyf]

Peter, all the tools we see in the pictures are in your workshop?

[petervdvelde]

Apologizes for not responding. I could not acces inter net for a few days.

Dean,

I bought the camshaft from Jim Robinson (JRV8). It a standard 3.9 camshaft.

Cyf,

Yes, all the tools you see are in my workshop

Peter

[petervdvelde]

An update on the engine rebuild.
And after the polishing. Its a heavy lump so didn't need to go to the gym that day....


Fitted a new spigot bearing as the engine was coupled to an LT77 which will be replaced by a 4ZF which required a spigot bearing with a different dimension.


Then cleaned the oil channels in the crankshaft with brake cleaner and a small brush



Got the new main crankshaft bearings


And fitted these

After putting engine oil to the shells, i fitted crankshaft and bearing caps and the applied new cross shaped seals to the rear bearing cap

The pistons on an SD1 engine have a text "front" stamped in which has to face to the front of the engine and the con rods have a mark which has to face the other con rod, fitted to the same crankshaft con rod bearing journal.


Alll piston were fitted and after putting oil on the new con rod bearing shells, the conrod bolts were torqued to the specified torque. The crankshaft can be rotated by fitting the front pulley bolt with a suitable spanner.


All pistons fitted


Assembling the engine is a really nice job after many hours of cleaning all the parts.



After fitting the spacer and distributor gear, torqued the camshaft bolt to the specified torqued after blocking the gear with a round bar



and fitted these to the engine



Now have to wait for the heads being ready and parts coming back from powder coating and bolt bracket ect which get a new coat of zinc. these boys needs their time.

Peter

[enigmas]

Hi Peter, looks like you're doing a thorough job of the rebuild. Could you tell me the source of your purchase for the ARP studs for the cyl head.
PS. I've never seen a crank polished with a rotary buff before. Be cautious that you don't inadvertently taper or lozenge the journals. Very fine grade wet & dry in a long strip wrapped around the journal and worked back and forth will normally remove minor imperfections.

[petervdvelde]

Hello Vince,

I bought the ARP studs from Jim Robinson (company name "JRV8") in Northern Ireland. Price is GBP 140,- for the 28 studs, rings, nuts and the assembly lube which, i believe is a little cheaper then V8tuner. I had good experiences with him in the past with supplying me a 4ZF HP22 and also this time i am very satisfied with him.

I understand your concern about using a rotary buff. I also had doubts if it would work so i did some test on a scrap crankshaft and did some measurement before and after and the difference was almost impossible to measure on a micrometer with a scale of 0,01mm, The buff gives a smoother surface then using fine grade wet&dry but wet&dry is also a very good method.
Regards
Peter