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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2008 3:24:29 GMT
Let sleeping dogs lie. High detergent oil will remove carbon & gunk from around oil rings. This leads to high oil use. Degrease the outside but leave internals alone. Cheers John
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Feb 5, 2008 23:06:26 GMT
Hadn't thought about compression. Thanks. I plan to take the heads off later in the year, so I can suss out the bore then and get an idea.
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Post by enigmas on Feb 6, 2008 10:49:04 GMT
Warwick I'm with John on this one. Do not put high detergent oils or any product in the motor that will degunk it. Products like these are available from most auto parts suppliers...don't go there as it will cause all sorts of problems especially on a long lived motor. If you want the internals cleaned up (and you're patient) change fuels to LPG. I've used this fuel for years on a range of vehicles. Gas does not produce the abrasive carbon deposits of petrol and is very gentle on motors. I have run gas on engines of unknown age (mainly big sixes fitted with hydraulic lifters (Ford & Chrysler hemi) and these motors have cleaned up internally and noisy hydraulic tappets have quietened over time. I put this down to less abrasive carbon being held in suspension in the oil allowing the oil to "slowly" clean up the internals. In some cases this has taken up to 2 years. Find some literature on LPG and engine oil and assess it for yourself. If I look into the rocker covers through the oil filler on my P5V8 I'm amazed how clean the internals are, 15 years after I put the motor together. ~ Vince
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Feb 7, 2008 0:09:46 GMT
Thanks Vince. I'm going to be considering LPG later anyway. Especially since there is a rebate. I drove LPG cars for years, but never owned one. Since CIG/BOC owned half of Elgas, most of the company cars were dual fuel Commodores and Falcons.
(I don't suppose you will be going to the meeting and barbecue on Friday?)
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Feb 7, 2008 5:15:21 GMT
Radiator (the right one this time) collected from the repair shop. All hoses, gaskets, new s/s hose clips, etc. on hand. Plate made up to lock the crankshaft while I tighten the pulley bolt. Car booked in for RWC test next Wednesday. 14-days permit to drive unregistered car obtained. Busy weekend ahead for me and junior.
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Post by enigmas on Feb 7, 2008 5:41:05 GMT
No Warwick, enjoy the outing.
~ Vince
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Feb 12, 2008 0:18:08 GMT
(Vince - I'm beginning to suspect that you must be that member whose name is never spoken).
The weekend mostly went according to plan, except that everything had a slight snag associated with it and so everything took twice to three times as long to do. (I should have known).
We only got to the attempted starting stage by 8pm Sunday night; and it wouldn't!! Just crank, crank, crank ....... with an occasional sputter. I was getting all tired and emotional so I gave up. I cancelled the RWC test on Wednesday and changed it to next Monday.
Last night I double and triple checked everything until I couldn't think what to do next. So I pulled the distributor and spark plugs out, and the LH rocker cover off, and turned over the engine ... then set it all up from scratch again.
Then turned the key and she fired and ran. A bit lumpy at first because the cold start only works on one carby, but once warm she ran beautifully, if slightly fast.
I have no idea what was wrong before. Distributor 180 degrees out? Plug leads wrong? Dunno. I did check all these things, but I was tired and grumpy, so who knows.
Then I plugged my temporary voltage regulator for the temp and fuel gauges into the cigarette lighter socket as I've done many times before and ... FRITZ! All the interior lights go out. No.1 fuse blew!! I think the lighter socket is dodgy. It certainly looks dodgy inside.
(I can hear Freddy sniggering in the background, mumbling to himself ... "If you'd paid the money and bought a regulator off eBay like I suggested, this would never have happened.")
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Feb 13, 2008 0:22:28 GMT
Faulty cigarette lighter socket removed from console. It was really nasty inside. No wonder it shorted out. New plug leads should arrive tomorrow, so things are looking good for finishing off this weekend and giving her a good clean inside and out.
Then a test drive around the block; a trip into town for an engine wash, then the big inspection on Monday. Can't wait.
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Feb 19, 2008 7:20:22 GMT
They didn't finish the rear brakes yesterday, so she had to stay overnight and the formal inspection was done today.
So I now have my RWC (MoT) and it's booked in with the registration authority next Monday. So I've got to wait another week!!!
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Post by enigmas on Feb 19, 2008 8:12:03 GMT
Good luck with the registration Warwick. No one here knows anything about these vehicles so any non manufacturer alterations should slip through the radar. The only problem I had (and I had a few engineer certified alterations) was convincing them that the VIN was on the passenger door pillar. As it is a MK3 and not a factory V8 there is also a plate on one of the original 6 cyl engine mounts which I cut off the sub-frame during all the alterations I made. It took me quite a while to convince the "young woman" that the "only" original plate was on the PS door pillar. If you have an original manual with pictures of these things take it with you, it may help. ~ Vince
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Feb 19, 2008 9:11:14 GMT
Thanks Vince,
Good advice. I keep encountering people who don't know that once upon a time there were no ADR compliance plates. They are also going to want to know the date of manufacture.
I hope the extract from the old Police Motor Registration Branch files is acceptible. I don't want any more delays.
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Feb 25, 2008 3:53:18 GMT
Well it's done.
After nearly a year the old girl is registered and road-legal again in Victoria, the state of her upbringing. And sporting a set of nice, new, shiny, proper black and white number plates only one digit removed from her original number.
Next step - get the carbies sorted out.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Feb 25, 2008 7:06:25 GMT
"On The Road Again" I feel a song coming on well done Aussie cousin Enjoy
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Post by glennr on Feb 25, 2008 7:24:06 GMT
"You'll come a waltzing Matilda with me". ;D Well done OZ.
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Feb 25, 2008 9:29:51 GMT
Thanks chasps.
It will be interesting to see what the SU doctor has to say tomorrow.
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Feb 28, 2008 0:46:38 GMT
Well the advice was that someone has been fiddingly with it and that I should just pull the carbie apart, check it, reassemble it and reset it.
My borrowed balancer arrived this morning and I should have a couple of service kits in the mail tomorrow, ready for the weekend.
I drove the car in rain this morning for the first time and discovered one of the drawbacks of the park-off-the-glass mechanism. I can't fit an intermittent wiper control. Or has someone found a cunning way to do it? i.e. Make the blades stop on the glass between delayed wipes.
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Post by enigmas on Feb 28, 2008 11:38:13 GMT
Yeah Warwick, I see your dilemma. You could always use the tried and trusted Aussie, "she'll be right mate method" and just bend the blades up 50mm or so! Hey it's an imperfect world.
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Feb 29, 2008 0:14:17 GMT
Thanks for that Vince. I thought perhaps you may have figured out a way of doing it hydraulically.
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Feb 29, 2008 6:58:46 GMT
If you are used to driving a manual Range Rover, and you are in the habit of resting your arm on the big, high armrest and your hand on the gearlever knob between gear changes ... then you drive a P5B for the first time in a long time; engage the brain before engaging another gear.
Since the car isn't running well at the moment, I decided to leave it in 2nd until I was out of the lane behind the office and onto the main road. Keep the revs up a bit and warm it up quicker.
So I entered the main road with my arm on the big, high armrest and hand on the gearlever (non-Tbar) knob ... and my brain in neutral.
Then when it was going a bit faster it was time to shift into second so I stomped on the clutch and moved the lever.
I wasn't the only person who was surprised.
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Mar 12, 2008 8:54:11 GMT
I now have the SUs off the car again and in bits. I have some service kits and new jet bearings but a few things don't quite match up so everything is on hold again.
I may get time next weekend to put everything back together again and adjust the carbies, then take her for a run.
But unfortunately I don't feel confident enough yet (reliability-wise) to take it on the long trip to the Land-Rover 60th celebrations, so I'll be taking the Range Rover. Makes more sense too.
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Jun 1, 2008 6:42:27 GMT
I tried the John Twist SU piston drop-test this morning. (See other post).
They didn't match no matter which way around I tried them. Decided to press on with reassembly of carbies and putting them back on the car. Also fitted a twin (Y) cold-start cable. Now it won't start at all. Almost fires sometimes, but refuses to run. Eventually the battery has to be recharged before fiddling around and trying again.
The annoying thing is that it used to be difficult to start when the cold-start mechanism was only fitted to the LH SU. But it would start. Then I replaced the jet on the RH SU but didn't have the jet-lowering mechanism connected. It then started much more easily, although not perfectly.
Now I have all new jets and the lowering mechanism functioning and it's worse than it ever was. Just won't go.
There is no throttle return spring on the RH SU and nowhere to attach one on the head. I assumed that the LH spring did all the work through the linkage but on looking at the drawings in the manual, it shows both SUs having return springs.
I suspect I'm going to have to remove the lot; manifold and all, and take it to someone who knows what he's looking at.
I really thought I'd have it out on the road again today. Excuse me while I crouch in the corner of the shed for a bit and quietly rock back and forth.
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Post by enigmas on Jun 2, 2008 11:47:51 GMT
After rereading your last few posts Warwick, I'm just beginning to digest the magnitude of your frustration with getting your V8 running.
I've collated the SU comments from your posts to try and gain an understanding of what is happening?
Then turned the key and she fired and ran. A bit lumpy at first because the cold start only works on one carby, but once warm she ran beautifully, if slightly fast.
I now have the SUs off the car again and in bits. I have some service kits and new jet bearings but a few things don't quite match up so everything is on hold again.
They didn't match no matter which way around I tried them. Decided to press on with reassembly of carbies and putting them back on the car. Also fitted a twin (Y) cold-start cable. Now it won't start at all. Almost fires sometimes, but refuses to run. Eventually the battery has to be recharged before fiddling around and trying again.
The annoying thing is that it used to be difficult to start when the cold-start mechanism was only fitted to the LH SU. But it would start. Then I replaced the jet on the RH SU but didn't have the jet-lowering mechanism connected. It then started much more easily, although not perfectly.
Now I have all new jets and the lowering mechanism functioning and it's worse than it ever was. Just won't go.
There is no throttle return spring on the RH SU and nowhere to attach one on the head. I assumed that the LH spring did all the work through the linkage but on looking at the drawings in the manual, it shows both SUs having return springs.
Begin Over: Do not remove the manifold unless your doing it for pleasure?
1. I imagine both jet needles are the same and that they are centred.
2. The float levels are set correctly on both carbs.
3. The throttles on the SUs return to the idling position with one spring. (Who needs 2? There should be a common linkage so one spring will do the job.)
4. The fuel pump delivers fuel to the carburettors.
5. You can verify spark to the plugs (at least 1) when cranking.
6. The static timing is correct and the leads are connected in the correct firing order. You've checked the rotation of the rotor button.
7. Spin the motor over with the plugs, the throttle open and the ignition off or just leave it over night.
8. Do not use the choke mechanism.
9. Get a small squirt bottle (hair dye container or like) and place some fuel into it.
10. Remove the air filter units
11. Squirt some fuel (small amount) into the throats of each carburettor.
12. Open the throttle about half way and crank it over. If the timing is ok it will fire and run momentarily. If your lucky you should be able to sustain the engine at suitably high revs for long enough to keep it running. You can repeat this until it does run.
** The 2 chokes may be overfueling as they are currently set up and flooding the engine....causing the non-start situation.
* * This may be the reason only one unit was being used as a choke...the previous owner couldn't have had everything wrong? Note: It started and ran and improved when you replaced the jet in the RH carburettor.
(Also note that 1 carburettor can fuel this V8 and start it. You probably have no knowledge of where these units originally came from or were setup for. What needles should they be using for the 3.5 V8? See Below)
If you can get it running like this and warm it, you can then experiment with the choke to see what effect it has on the motor.
I'm only guessing that you have the HIF type SUs fitted? My SU manual (1976) informs me that a 1972-73 3500 P6 V8 fitted with HIF6 Carbs should have a BBG needle and a yellow spring in the suction chamber.
The SU Specification No. for this unit is AUD51L & AUD51R. (I chose the P6B as the P5B ran a different version of the SU.
Final Note: If you get it running you can improvise with your hand over the throat of 1 carb to increase suction on the jet to enrichen the mixture whilst its cold.
Also factor in the PCV valve or any air bleeds from the engine to the manifold. These can cause a lean situation at idle. (Lock-off these hoses with multigrips, or whatever to gauge any improvements.) My Magnette had a similar problem...lean at idle. I brazed the end of a steel vacuum fitting and drilled progressively smaller holes till the bleed was correct. You could fit an appropriately 'drilled' plug in the line. Simply reducing the clamping effect on a line with a pair of vice-grips progressively gives a useful indication.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Jun 2, 2008 12:06:53 GMT
Sadly Vince I think Warwick has had a few bodges to contend with some classics get abused/bodged for the lack of correct parts
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Post by enigmas on Jun 2, 2008 12:12:11 GMT
Your right John? Things can get really screwed up!
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Post by Smallfry on Jun 2, 2008 21:40:41 GMT
I think its best to go back to basics and the beginning to check all the settings.
But just to check beforehand..............as this adjustment is always f****d up. Can you post a good photo of your carb linkage ?
As you pull on the choke, there are adjusting screws on a cam...........one on each carb, which SHOULD progressively open the throttle butterflies BEFORE the jets are pulled down. if this doesn't happen, the mixture is wayyyyy too rich.
In any case, don't waste your time with this.............get out and find me a pair of cylinder heads for an Aussie Ford Cleveland 302 engine instead !
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