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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Jun 2, 2008 23:46:41 GMT
Unfortunately Vince, it's YES to virtually all of the above except that I used a can of "Start ya bastard" (Aussie Aerostart) instead of a spray of petrol.
It has to be something to do with the linkages. They are HS6s with the correct (and straight) needles and the tags are even the right ones. Everything else seems to check out. Anyway, a club member in Castlemaine has come to the rescue with the offer of a complete manifold and carbies still set up as when removed from the car. I will be able to compare and hopefully spot a difference. I take your point about the manifold Vince. It will have to come off at some point to replace the water pipe underneath and some of the water nipples - but not yet.
Lady luck has smiled again fortunately, as I have to go to Ballarat Uni the University of Ballarat today and tomorrow to do some work and it's less than an hour from there to Castlemaine. I've even been offered dinner. I doubt you'd get such help from a Daewoo enthusiast.
Smallfry, If you are really chasing a couple of 302 heads, they shouldn't be hard to find for you. We use them as doorstops.
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Post by enigmas on Jun 3, 2008 7:36:54 GMT
Warwick I was corrected by a very pedantic academic at Ballarat some time back because I should have referred to the institution as the University of Ballarat.
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Jun 3, 2008 14:38:28 GMT
You are of course correct Vince. I've made the necessary correction.
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Post by enigmas on Jun 4, 2008 11:01:06 GMT
Warwick, found this little technical insight into the SU HIF Series carburettor. www.mgbmga.com/tech/mgb19.htmExcerpt follows: SU CARBURETORS (HS4/HIF) HIF4 Disadvantages: 1 - The bi-metal metering jet adjustment fixture inside the float bowl also acts as a temperature compensating device which, supposedly dependent upon temperature, richens or leans out the fuel mixture the appropriate amount. Unfortunately, high under hood temperatures, especially at idle and also after the vehicle has been driven and parked a short while, before being driven again, we have a very difficult time obtaining a stabilized engine RPM. 2 - The spring loaded bias metering needle, common on this type of carburetor, actually makes contact with the jet tube assembly and over a period of time wears the jet tube to a point where it will have to be replaced along with the metering needle. Fixed Metering Needle v. Biased Metering Needle Fixed metering needles were used on the HS4 carburetor through 1968 and, when centered within the metering needle jet tube, will have a long life. On the other hand, bias metering needles (HS4 1969-1971, HIF4 1972-1974 1/2) and metering needle jet tubes will wear and will have to be replaced every several years or even sooner. SU Sensitivities Remember HS4/HIF4 SU carburetors, especially HIF4, are sensitive to ambient and coolant temperatures and really require some sort of heat exchanger or preheat device to assist in drivability problems during the engine "warm-up" period. This holds true for high under hood temperatures where air should be directed from an outside source to provide a denser air charge.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Jun 4, 2008 11:27:45 GMT
Warwick is on HS6 carbs Vince Don't confuse him anymore he won't leave the padded room
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Post by enigmas on Jun 4, 2008 12:05:31 GMT
Same principle and operation John, its only the throat size that's different. The same flaws in the design will be apparent in any P5Bs using this version of the SU. If you want to get really confused I just found a site that converts your carburettor (SU or Stromberg) to a throttle body injector. This means that your P5B carburation system looks exactly the same but becomes an injected engine. Take a look. TBI (using your carburettor) www.pattonmachine.com/The link below illustrates a Rover V8 conversion www.pattonmachine.com/CustomerCars.htm
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Jun 5, 2008 0:59:00 GMT
Now I am confused. I always thought that only the self-centring (is that what they mean by biased?) needle was in the HIF and that all HS were fixed.
Mine is definitely the old fixed type. I've always wondered how the spring-loaded later needles dealt with the rubbing on the jet. Now I know; they don't; they wear.
I used to be familiar with the Rangie Zenith-Strombergs and their bi-metallic springs, but not SUs.
Interestingly, when I was younger and seemed to have more time to fiddle with cars I was toying with the idea of throttle-body injection on the 2-door Rangie. I was going to install the P76 engine and fit 2 Nissan Pintara(?) "electronic carburetters". These were for a 2.4-litre engine. I was also going to build an ignition system using optical fibre from the distributor cap to fire a CDI-type system with a coil for each cylinder. The distrubutor was to have 8 LEDs and a chopper disc with one slot instead of the cam.
I got the P76 engine and all the optical cable but that's where it ended, about 20 years ago.
I've now got the borrowed HS6 manifold assembly so I can have a close look on the weekend and do some comparisons. Perhaps even swap carbies over.
I will also be able to take some photos of my existing set-up.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jun 6, 2008 19:12:44 GMT
Some SU's especially the HIF's did have biased needles but the ones fitted to P5's/P5B's were all fixed and must be centred
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Jun 7, 2008 8:26:29 GMT
Thanks Phil.
Well, she's mobile again. The borrowed SUs seem to have the same bits and pieces and are set up the same way. The only difference I can see is that the jet adjusting nuts have that long tab on them. It starts easily but doesn't idle smoothly unless running above 800 rpm.
But it still lacks power and seems to be pinking when under the slightest bit of load, as before. I've tried advancing it bit by bit and reducing the advance bit by bit and taking it for a run each time, but it seems to make no difference. Very odd. I was expecting it would get noticeably better or worse.
I can't dynamically time it because I don't trust the pulley alignment. The pulley is nice and tight now - was found to be loose. I'm going to have to take off the pulley and get a wider Woodruff key made - or use good old Loctite spline repair like I did on the Rangie engine many years ago. At least then I can ensure that the pointer is truly indicating TDC.
So I'm back where I started but with cold start working on both.
Oh, not quite - the driver's window jammed halfway down today but at least it went back up again. Looks like I'll be taking the door card off sooner than expected.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jun 7, 2008 9:49:57 GMT
At least its running and it can be tested more systematically - you need to sort the timing out has this does have a massive effect on idling although pinking is caused by too much advance and advancing usually makes idle higher.
Unbalanced carbs will cause the symptoms so set the airflow accuratley and identically
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Jun 7, 2008 11:01:08 GMT
Tah.
Yes, at least I can now make minor adjustments and look for signs of improvement. I've been lent a carby balancer.
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Post by enigmas on Jun 9, 2008 3:38:35 GMT
It's very easy to modify the centrifugal advance in the distributor Warwick as long as it's done systematically. This way you can set for best idle (use a vacuum guage) and then focus on the amount of advance you want to allow. If it pings increase the tension on the springs. Idling problems...vacuum leaks?
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Jun 9, 2008 5:29:57 GMT
A result at last Warwick Is it possible to mark the pulley TDC using No1 plug hole with typex then use a strobe at least you will see if the vacuum AR is working? it may not be
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Jun 10, 2008 0:32:21 GMT
Thanks Vince and John.
It's a brand new distributor, set up specifically for this engine so I would hope it's working properly. But you never know, do you.
I think it's time to go back to basics ... again.
I'll pull out No.1 plug again and recheck TDC. I've got an arthroscope so I might even use that to get a good close-up view of the piston. I've also borrowed a good timing light. (Must buy one). Mine is an ancient home-made gas-discharge tube thing from when I first worked on a car. You need almost total darkness to see anything with it.
I think I should also do a compression test. If only to rule it out.
Then set the SUs up from scratch again. (Sigh).
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Jun 10, 2008 6:11:09 GMT
Keep at it Warwick you will get there I think you are doing the right thing in going back to square one and working through it, I used my 50p Sun Tune timing light I bought at the local tip on Glenns car yesterday we had to do the same thing TDC on No1 and mark the pulley the timing marks were no where to be seen
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Jun 10, 2008 7:40:19 GMT
Perhaps that could be Glenn's next project - stainless steel crankshaft pulleys; although they'd have to be pressed. A solid machined one would be more your style John.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2008 18:14:00 GMT
Quite a good car and with a nice combination of colours; I see roof is white and body has Bordeaux and grey?.
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Post by Warwick on Jul 1, 2008 4:44:33 GMT
Quite a good car and with a nice combination of colours; I see roof is white and body has Bordeaux and grey?. It's that lighting problem again Alfonso. The car has been painted in a non-standard colour scheme. The body is Bordeau Red and the sides and roof are metallic silver.
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Post by enigmas on Jul 29, 2008 10:58:27 GMT
Hey Warwick, I was perusing my P5 manual tonight for no particular reason and came across the explanation of the wiper motor. You asked in an earlier post for any ideas on how to make the wiper work intermittently.
Here's one!!! If you disable the parking feature (which apparently can be done by turning a small knurled knob on the wiper motor or just disable this feature) you should be able to add some sort of 'timer device' (hey, I find it hard to enthuse over a wiper mechanism) to make the wipers work intermittantly during light rain or even for several wipes when you press the washer switch. The only negative to this is that the wiper will park at the base of the windscreen (like most vehicles of the day) and not under it. What do yo think? Hmm.
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Post by Warwick on Jul 29, 2008 13:32:47 GMT
Thanks Vince, but I have to find a way to do it without losing the self-parking feature. I find it intreging and enjoy turning on the wipers and saying to people - Now watch this!
I must find it in the manual. Does it explain how the self-park works? I probably should open up the crank housing on the motor and check the grease, and remove and grease the drive cable. I remember when I worked on one of these things years ago when I fitted a unit off a BMC car to a 403. The original grease tended to dry out.
I still haven't got back onto the SUs again. Got the Range Rover in getting an LPG conversion at the moment.
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Post by enigmas on Jul 29, 2008 14:54:19 GMT
That's the way to go. The V8 runs well on gas, and the rebate is a plus!
(I've got my CD Stromberg automatic chokes dialled in beautifully on my MG Magnette V8...thanks Mr Twist.)
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Post by Smallfry on Jul 29, 2008 19:25:19 GMT
I have just been reading this thread all the way through again.
I have got a feeling that you ought to looking at the camshaft. The previous owner said it had been replaced ? I am thinking that he has either ....................
Got the cam timing out.
Fitted some soet of sports cam that will not idle slowly/evenly
Has fitted it badly so that the lobes are already seriously worn
Or not fitted a new cam at all ?
It does not take much/long to wear out the camshafts on these engines, and if some of the lobes are worn, it will never idle nicely.
Have you tried a compression test yet ?
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Post by Colin McA on Jul 29, 2008 22:07:32 GMT
Regarding the wiper delay. I have not yet wired mine up but I have a lucas dealy unit from a range rover and I plan to replace the on off switch with a similar switch with an extra position. I will connect it from the new position on the switch, through the delay unit and T on to the wire on the wiper side of the speed resistor. This way when they are switch off from the delay they should still self park pretty simple. I haven't got round to doing a wiring diagram but it is on the list. It rains in scotland even on the sunny days Colin
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Post by Warwick on Jul 30, 2008 6:03:44 GMT
I hadn't thought of that Smallfry. I'll have to look further - but I hope you're wrong. It idles well now, if a bit fast; but it's under load at speed that it shows up. I have a vague recollection that it was an after-market camshaft that he mentioned. I'll have to search back through my e-mails, or ask him.
I'll check TDC very carefully when I get the chance and look more closely at valve timing. Am I likely to be able to measure variations in cam wear by measuring pushrod-rocker clearance with the hydraulic tappets empty?
By the way, for those who don't know already and live down here or in NZ, the hydraulic tappets from a Holden 253 V8 are directly interchangeable, and are identical in every functional dimension. And they are cheaper and easier to get. I discovered this when I did up my 1977 Range Rover engine about 20 years ago.
Thanks for that Colin. I'm sure you'll get yours done before I do so I'll be interested in the results.
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Post by Smallfry on Jul 30, 2008 23:09:20 GMT
With a cam problem, it is not unusual to be able to get the engine to either idle something like satisfactorily, or to be able to set them up for power...................but not both at the same time.
He might have fitted a multiple position or variable sprocket too ? Who knows ?
Rather than empty the lifters, I would buy a new one, pull the gubbins out, and replace it with a piece of steel bar. Its a good solid and reliable platform to put the stylus of a dial gauge onto.
I would try a compression test first though, to see if any cylinders are somewhat lower than the rest. This would indicate that the cam is US.
Its a bit time consuming, but done properly it can save a lot of time messing around.
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