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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Jan 29, 2008 2:00:49 GMT
Having cleared most of my backlog at work, I now have more time to spend on the car. As many of you will be aware, I've been accumulating parts and knowledge since joining the forum last April, shortly after buying it. I spent most of yesterday working to ready it for the necessary roadworthy test. In Victoria (Aust.) this is not an annual requirement, but is required when a vehicle changes hands. In my case it has been further complicated by the fact that it is an interstate car (different registration authorities) and that it was built prior to the requirement to attach an Australia design rules compliance plate. This necessitates the car being viewed by the state road authority rather than simply having certification by a mechanic licensed to perform the task. (If this seems complicated, it is; but you must also remember that Australia is a Federation of states which are former colonies. As a nation, these states are still not entirely seamlessly integrated). I should also point out that the areas that failed the informal preliminary test that I had done after returning with it from Queensland are relatively minor items in the grand scheme of things. Things like oil leaks, weeping wheel cylinder and calliper, cooling system leaks, cracked steering wheel, etc. While dissappointed that leaks had appeared on the trip home, thereby preventing me from immediately re-registering the car in this state, I wasn't entirely surprised. It's an old car that hadn't had a lot of use in the last couple of years and the trip home would have tested many much younger cars. Sustained 100 to 110 kph driving in 30 to 35 deg.C heat for nearly 1,800km over 3 days was bound to test the old girl's seals and joints. But the various jobs are straightforward and relatively minor thanks largely to the efforts of the previous owner (Jeff Jones) who has done an incredible job of body restoration giving me a sound, straight, rust-free body with a beautiful interior. Similarly, my current tasks have been made much easier thanks to the assistance and generousity of members of this forum and my own local club (RCCA). So, having started work on the car yesterday, I thought I might begin to post updates on my progress as I have enjoyed reading those of others. Warwick. P.S. Must think of a better name for the car. At home it tends to be simply called the Rover or P5, although P5 is quite apt for a different reason. There is (and has been for a long time) a locally produced childrens' TV programme called Bananas in Pajamas. The 2 main characters are bananas and they are named simply B1 and B2. When my son was of kindergarten age, the show was one of his favourites. Around that time we owned 2 identical Peugeot 505 diesels and these became known as P1 and P2. These were later replaced by later models which then became P3 and P4. It was interesting that the Rover was the next car to arrive.
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Jan 29, 2008 4:33:15 GMT
Yesterday I set about removing the redundant mechanical fuel pump. An electric pump has been fitted under the floor of the car and it is still pushing through the original pump. The pump is leaking oil badly and the simplest thing is to remove it and blank-off the block.
The problem was that it is totally inaccessible and hidden from view due to the aircon compressor and its large mounting bracket. So I decided that the simplest thing to do was to remove the compressor, bracket and belt tensioner. I'll put it back and regas it later when everything else has been sorted out.
The pump has now been removed and and the blanking plate ready to go on.
The fuel line will be rerouted to provide better access to the in-line filter.
I've siphoned out the power steering fluid from the reservoir and removed the hose to the PAS pump. The old hose had hardened around the clamps and was leaking.
The radiator is still out and I now have a large (16") electric fan to go in later. I'm taking the opportunity to fit mounting brackets for the fan before the radiator is repaired (tank crack) so I can easily install it later.
The old distributor and Luminition has been removed and the new Bosch dizzy (Holden) is ready to go in.
The plumbing for the rear heater has been removed and the 1/2" aluminium manifolds at the rear of the engine will be replaced by rubber hoses directly from the engine to the main heater. (The rear heater hoses under the car failed halfway back from Brisbane at Easter. Not really needed in this climate anyway).
The thermostat has been removed to replace a leaking gasket, and perhaps the thermostat.
I'm looking for an aircooled transmission cooler to mount behind the front valance where the horns are mounted. The existing cooler will be removed from the radiator.
And that's about it for the present. Hopefully more progress next weekend.
I have a couple of questions but I think I'll post these separately in order to make replying easier.
Warwick.
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Jan 29, 2008 4:45:16 GMT
In order to remove the aircon mounting bracket I had to remove 2 of the water pump's bolts. One bolt hole leads straight into the water jacket of the block and so requires thread sealant. (See photo where camera flash is sparkling off green drip). It's 20 years since I had one of these engines semi-dismantled (1977 Range Rover) and so my memory is a bit hazy. Is this bolt hole supposed to go through into the jacket, or do I have a leak due to a bolt being used that was too long for the hole? Warwick.
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Jan 29, 2008 4:47:31 GMT
Is the thermostat, housing and gasket the same as for early Range Rover?
Or am I going to have to make my own gasket?
Warwick.
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Jan 29, 2008 4:56:38 GMT
Any recommendations as to the best Bosch or NGK plugs for this engine please?
(I'm not a big fan of Champion plugs in any engine)
Warwick.
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Jan 29, 2008 9:22:07 GMT
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Jan 29, 2008 9:49:59 GMT
Thanks John. I suppose one consolation is that I'm too old, AND it's the wrong kind of car for me to be accused of having a mid-life crisis.
Which NGK are you using? I won't have the CDI fitted for awhile I suspect, so I'll be running on standard ignition at first. I also like to be able to switch back to standard Kettering should anything go wrong.
Ah yes, I remember borrowing some stainless bolts from the engineering department at work when I did the Rangie engine. (I'll have to buy them this time, but it would be worth using them again).
Thanks for the gasket info.
I tried to have him airbrushed out but it was going to cost too much.
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Post by enigmas on Jan 29, 2008 11:57:03 GMT
Looks like your getting deep into it Warwick. Nice car. The 2 tone colour scheme looks good. On most of the motors I've either rebuilt or used having an unknown history, I generally like to flush out the cooling system (just using plain tap water) and any "units" attached to it eg, heater core, LPG converter, etc. and then add a can (or 2) of Chemi-weld to the system and run the car for a couple of weeks. After this time I drain and flush the system again and add some quality glycol to inhibit corrosion etc.
Chemi-weld is great stuff and it will seek out and seal porous gaskets and the like permanently. It only activates where the system is loosing coolant and will not block the radiator core like other products do. Use a stud sealant (any good auto parts place will have something) on the water pump bolt prior to using chemi-weld. I once had a cylinder misfiring at idle (high vacuum & porous or leaking gasket) on a rear cyl and chemi-weld fixed this...9 years ago. I also lifted the cyl head on a Datsun 240K many years ago when the exhaust manifold struck the ground whilst ascending a dirt road. I managed to drive the vehicle home with a noisy exhaust. The next day the motor failed to turn over??...a cylinder had filled with coolant...non compressible. Pulled the plug, spun the motor over on the starter to evacuate the coolant. Bought a can of chemi-weld and left it in the coolant for several weeks (drain all glycol based coolant) and it ran perfectly. Sold the car to my niece several years later...she eventually passed the vehicle on to someone else. I've even phoned the techs who manufacture the stuff and spoken to them about this product. Amazing stuff. I'm just a satisfied user.
As for the electric fan I prefer to use a mechanical one (it can get very hot in OZ) and assist it with an electric fan(s). You'll find the current draw is considerable (and it will slow the engine...alternator load). A mechanical fan keeps a constant flow of moving air over the motor it's hoses and ancillaries. Electric fans only switch on at a preset temperature. Notice the air intake on a lot of modern car batteries to stop the electrolyte from boiling.
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Post by dorsetflyer on Jan 29, 2008 16:29:27 GMT
If you are using NGK Spark plugs, use either BP5HS or BP6HS.
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Jan 29, 2008 17:06:42 GMT
This bolts and others do go through the water jacket and usually seize and break off!
Some sealent is essential use Search for more tips
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Jan 29, 2008 23:26:59 GMT
Thanks Vince, John and Phil. There are a few more bells ringing in the old memory box again. I think I used Permatex sealant on the old Rangie on various engine bolts. The engine has been "opened up" at some point in the not too distant past by the previous owner. He said that the camshaft has been replaced. That's probably why the bolts came out easily. I understand the fan issues Vince, and I've got them covered. When the electric fan is installed, it will be speed controlled. My main aim is to ensure that it can pull more air than the mechanical fan when the car is idling or moving slowly, and that it can be turned off when the car is moving fast enough to get a sufficient supply of ram air. The fan I've bought is BIG. It covers more area than the mechanical unit and will sit flush against the back of the radiator. The original alternator has been replaced with a 65A Mitsubishi unit and since the fan will be speed-controlled, there won't be a sudden thump when it turns on. I can't use a front-mounted pusher fan because of the aircon condensor - no room behind the grille. The aircon installation has no fan, so I will be using the new fan to assist it too. The system I've had on the current Rangie has been working well for a few years. It has 4 electric fans. 2 original aircon pushers in front and 2 large fans pulling. I have a multi-setpoint temp controller but haven't had time to install it yet so the fans are running on a conventional single-setpoint capillary-type thermostat. In the winter I run on the 2 pusher fans only. In autumn and spring I connect in one of the puller fans, and in summer I run all 4. Turning on the aircon brings in the pusher fans irrespective of what the other controller is doing. The multi-setpoint controller, when installed, will bring in the 2 pushers first, then add the puller fans one at a time as the temp rises. One thing that I did notice with the Rangie was that it revs more freely when accelerating briskly from a standing start. But this could be an illusion caused by being quieter without the mechanical fan. I usually clean out unknown engines using Alfloc cleaner with a leg of panty-hose poked down inside the radiator tank as a filter. It's amazing what it catches, even on a "clean" engine. Warwick. P.S. I've deleted my question about the distributor cap as I found the diagram in the workshop manual. P.P.S. In case anyone is interested, here are a couple of shots of the fans on the Range Rover.
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Post by glennr on Jan 30, 2008 7:40:47 GMT
Your car looks excellent Warwick and the paint combo looks very effective/striking. (When they are done as nice as yours) We also get BITP here too but I thought Skippy would be a choice
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Post by enigmas on Jan 30, 2008 8:52:20 GMT
You've obviously been there before on the cooling issue and have the problem nailed. The radiator on my P5 is an aluminium 4 core with 2 electric pusher fans in front. A mechanical flex fan with 'reduced' blades in width is fitted on the water pump pulley. The electric fans switch on at around 180 degrees F. The air-con condensor sits under the radiator. The electric fans switch off much earlier if the bonnet is raised (when stationary). Evacuating hot air out of the engine bay of a P5 V8 is the issue. I know one car that has a louvred bonnet but I don't like water in the engine bay on rainy days (vehicle parked).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2008 9:15:44 GMT
The apertures in the front wings of Aston Martin DB4, DB5, DB6, DBS and DBSV8 etc are there to let out hot air from the engine bay too.
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Post by enigmas on Jan 30, 2008 11:28:40 GMT
Freddy, I thought they might be for the rarified air inside!
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Jan 31, 2008 3:16:03 GMT
Thanks Glenn, ... and isn't it time you changed your avatar thumbnail again? I'm beginning to find it strangely disturbing, and I'm starting to break out in sympathetic bruising.
Vince, I read your early post on cooling systems with interest. I spent 20 years working with temperature control at the other end of the spectrum (industrial cryogenics). I've always thought that it was silly to mount the aircon condensor in front of the radiator (in Aust. anyway), but the options are limited and became more so as cars evolved with lower noses. I'm going to mount my trans cooler down there and get it out of the radiator. I can handle the possibility of a bit of oil in the radiator but not real keen on water in the gearbox.
Now there's a thought Freddy. I wonder how a Coupe would look with nice big air vents in the trailing edges of the front mudguards? How would current Range Rover vents look?
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Post by johnwp5bcoupe on Jan 31, 2008 7:25:20 GMT
Just out of interest Warwick have you converted the gloveboxes to a fridge for the Tinnies a few spare pipes shoud do the job
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2008 9:06:42 GMT
Warwick, When my radiator was overhauled, I had them blank off the fittings for the integral oil cooler/heat exchanger. I subsequently mounted a 13 row oil cooler for the auto box under the radiator (directly behind the two apertures in the front panel where the horns used to be mounted) and I have not had any problems with the system at all. Regards Adrian (Freddy)
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Post by glennr on Jan 31, 2008 10:05:08 GMT
Thanks Glenn, ... and isn't it time you changed your avatar thumbnail again? I'm beginning to find it strangely disturbing, and I'm starting to break out in sympathetic bruising. When I have lost the weight
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Post by dorsetflyer on Jan 31, 2008 15:04:09 GMT
Or the board snaps in the middle ;D
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Jan 31, 2008 23:22:31 GMT
Just out of interest Warwick have you converted the gloveboxes to a fridge for the Tinnies a few spare pipes shoud do the job Not a bad idea John. The centre glovebox could easily be converted given the proximity of the aircon. Not sure about the tinnies though. It's a P5B for goodness sakes! I would use it to keep the cucumber sandwiches cool. I was thinking along similar lines Adrian, but it will have to wait due to my stuff-up with the other radiator. In fact I've got the original one in the back of the Rangie now, to drop off at the radiator place at lunchtime to get the tank crack fixed. The plan now (Plan B) is to keep it standard until I can find and mount a suitable cooler, and then swap over. Do you know which car your cooler is from? Or is it an aftermarket universal unit? Where did you put the horns? Any chance of some photos?
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Feb 3, 2008 22:49:03 GMT
Thanks Glenn, ... and isn't it time you changed your avatar thumbnail again? I'm beginning to find it strangely disturbing, and I'm starting to break out in sympathetic bruising. When I have lost the weight Congrats on the weight loss Glenn.
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Feb 3, 2008 23:24:58 GMT
Mechanical fuel pump hole now blanked-off. Supply hose to PAS pump from reservoir removed. (Hard as a rock and leaking both ends). Breather hoses cleaned out and new flame-traps fitted. (No gauze left in old ones). Rocker covers removed. (Screws loose and cork gasket hard and disintegrating - new plastic gaskets on hand). All the complicated plumbing for the rear seat heater removed. (Leaking and not needed anyway). New distributor fitted.
Many of these account for most of the bad leaks.
AND, the front pulley bolt wasn't very tight!!!
The rocker covers are badly gunged up, and the valve gear and top of the heads are very grubby. I'll probably pull the heads off at a later date, but in the meantime do I run any risk if I use a high detergent oil for a while and do a couple of short interval oil and filter changes?
Am I likely to cause more problems like blocking oil-ways with dislodged crud?
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Post by Phil Nottingham on Feb 4, 2008 19:04:13 GMT
Your engine shows the classic signs of neglect that these engines do not tolerate.
As the damage as probably already been done you have nothing to loose by running with a high detergent haevy diesel and ckhangeing both oil & filter regularly and after 1000 miles for the first one but never more than 3000 or 1 year after that and even after recon.
Use SEARCH for more opinions on the topic as it crops up all too often
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Post by Warwick (Ozcoupe) on Feb 4, 2008 23:54:15 GMT
Thanks Phil.
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